What is the price you will accept? Will you accept 1200+ people being murdered and 239 people being kidnapped?
Will you accept women and girls being raped, some of them dying from their pelvises being broken by gang rape, some of those being infants and toddlers?
Will you accept children being tortured in front of their parents only then for all of them to be murdered?
Will you accept families being burned alive in their homes while locked in safe rooms to escape terrorists?
Will you accept 25,000 rockets fired from neighboring countries at civilian populations?
Will you accept those rockets hitting schools and hospitals that have zero soldiers or terrorists using them as bases?
The answer is a resounding YES, you will accept that. You do accept that. And this is why the left is losing a passionate group of supporters of most issues over one issue that is not domestic.
The new litmus test of the Left is support of Palestinians and blaming Israel when Palestinians kill Jews. The Left now requires that Jews take getting killed lying down, just like during the lead up to the Holocaust.
Jews stand up to racism first. We stood against Trump’s Muslim ban first. We linked arms with BLM immediately. We always do and we do so knowing we will be deserted when the latest antisemites target us.
The synagogue I bike past in Brookline has a BLM sign still up. I commend them because it is a really strong moral stance to say the BLM and that Israel and the dispossession of Jews matters.
This page since 10/7 has blamed Israel. It has blamed peaceful old ladies on a kibbutz who did not deserve to die the way they did.
I served as a Peace Corps Volunteer with Palestinian refugees. I lived with them for a year.
The Niqbah is incredibly complicated.
Collective punishment for 10/7 of Palestinians would be a war crime.
Are we seeing that? We don't know.
But you know who has placed collective punishment on Palestinians? Other Arab states. They have kept "the Palestinian problem " alive and well for generations because it serves their own needs.
You think the other Arab countries don't hate/distain their co-religionists? That they stand in solidarity with Palestinians? They absolutely do not and in many cases hate them more than they hate the Jews.
We don't know if we're seeing collective punishment of Palestinians? Are you out of your mind? YES we're seeing that. The IDF is shelling Gaza indiscriminately. Innocent civilians just trying to live their lives are having them destroyed because of where they live and what they believe and what they look like. What Hamas did to Israel is unforgivable, but retaliating in this manner is inhuman. I'm not blaming Israel or Jews generally or asking either group to lay down and die. I'm asking them to see the lives they're destroying in pursuit of vengeance.
Human lives all have value, but that has nothing to do with the question at hand.
The question is justice.
Truly genocidal maniacs on one side started this, for the FOURTH TIME, and is holding babies as hostages.
By no standard ever in history, have the victims of such atrocities been subjected to this level of propaganda about not fighting back or making every effort to rescue their people.
Hamas had two weeks prior to the invasion to free those “human lives,” about whom you apparently don’t care a tinkers cuss, but chose to hide them under hospitals and kill a couple along the way.
Israel has embarked on a just war, which is why the civilized western world supports them. That you, Iran, Putin and Xi are on the same side is telling.
Do you remember what happened in Syria with Yarmouk camp? Assad left it to an ISIS affiliate. He didn't try to protect them. This thing about Arab nations protecting the Palestinians is only as good as what they can get out of it. I read that Biden tried to convince Jordan to take them all from Gaza before the IDF went in, he prolly said no because he still has millions of Syrian refugees living there. I also heard they asked Sisi, and just like a Pharaoh, would dump them in the Sinai to live. It's depressing, these people have been innocent of wanting nothing but self-determination and territory to call home. It's so disrespectful and cruel what has allowed to go on for 80 years.
Thank you for making this point, because I cannot stand the ignorance of some of the left towards Hamas or terrorism and their self-destructive need to blame Israel first & not once be an ally to a country constantly under attack. Are there flaws in Israels political system? Yes. Is this the moment to harp on them? No.
STFU you deranged Zionist. You're literally saying that the Palestinians should just bow down and accept getting wiped out by Israel and you say nothing. Everything you said was a proven lie and you have nothing to say about Israel bombing mosques, hospitals, schools and a fucking refugee camp. You have nothing to say about Israeli leaders comparing Palestinians to "Amalek" and calling for them to be wiped.
You are a genocidal fascist. And neither history nor the world is on your side. Go fuck yourself.
That's funny. Tell that to the many Jewish people who are condemning Israel.
And Anti-Semites seem to be lining up behind Israel: Christian Zionists, American and European Fascists, Azov Nazis, Neo-Nazis, are all supporting Israel, because Israel is implementing the policies of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and now genocide that they support.
My opposition to Israel has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, it has to do with Israel's policies of occupation, settler colonialism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and now, genocide. If Israel was a Christian state, a Muslim state, a Hindu state, a Buddhist state, a pagan state, or a secular atheist state and was still carrying out these exact same policies, I'd still be condemning them.
And your statement is itself anti-Semitic since you're conflating being Jewish with support Israel, which doesn't work when you remember the fact that many Jewish people all over the world oppose Israel's actions.
You are weaponizing a very real and very dangerous problem, anti-Semitism, to shut down criticism and condemnation of a genocidal, fascist state (which is why you say nothing of what Israel is doing right now to the Palestinians).
Progressives ‘just be kind’. Trust me I know antisemitism when I see it from both left and right. And I’m sure you are so concerned about all global conflicts because you know ‘all lives matter’.
"Trust me I know antisemitism when I see it from both left and right."
You're literally accusing anyone who criticizes Israel of being an antisemite while ignoring the actual antisemitism of Israel's supporters and conflating Israel with being Jewish (thus erasing Anti-Zionist Jews). You are just smearing anyone who criticizes a genocidal, apartheid fascist state of "Jew-hating" because you're a depraved scumbag.
"And I’m sure you are so concerned about all global conflicts because you know ‘all lives matter’."
It's funny that you're accusing me of being racist while you're supporting a genocidal, apartheid fascist state that calls Palestinians "animals", compares Gaza to Amalek, and remind me again how Israel treats Ethiopian and Palestinian Jews? It's almost like you're projecting.
When you literally accuse someone of speaking “literally” when they were speaking figuratively or even hypothetically you display an intellect literally lower than a fourth grader.
Except they're not doing that. They're using actual lies Israel has pushed to justify genocide against the Palestinians to bitch and whine about people not supporting their genocide.
The disconnect on this issue seems to stem from definitions like “genocide.”
You can yell genocide all you want but that doesn’t make it true.
It is curious why the left is so liberally twisting the meaning of “genocide,” from intent to exterminate an entire group based on ethnicity or religion, to any military action no matter how restrained.
It seems that when your side does actual genocide you say it’s mere freedom fighting, but when the other side responds it’s genocide.
Hamas literally targeted civilians, men, women, and children for wholesale slaughter. Israel literally gave two weeks notice to the men, women and children to go south to safety.
Were genocide the goal of Israel they would have Carpet bombed the entirety of Gaza starting day one. That could fairly be called genocide.
Maybe google these words before using them inaccurately.
Another exercise would be to take your definitions and apply them to each side, equally.
Alright you depraved scumbag, what Israel's doing in Gaza has actually been described as genocide by many, including a UN Human Rights Lawyer who resigned in protest over what was happening. Israel has also openly compared the people of Gaza to "Amalek" from the Bible, a people that were exterminated by the Israelites under divine instruction. And Israelis have been calling for genocide against the Palestinians for years.
Israel is literally bombing mosques, hospitals, schools and refugee camps under the guise of "defeating Hamas" (funny how they didn't know where Hamas was before October 7th, but now they suddenly know exactly where they are. And funny how them trying to "take out Hamas" looks exactly like them just killing people and using Hamas as a retroactive justification for it). Israel's attacks on Gaza both now and before October 7th killed men, women and children (the death counts now are actually higher than the entirety of the Russian invasion of Ukraine), but you don't care about them because they're Muslim (you already demonstrated in a previous comment that you're an Islamophobic bigot).
And no, I'm not going to "apply these terms equally" when 1) one of the two sides not only isn't trying to commit genocide but is actually the victims of one and 2) it's pretty clearly bullshit you pulled out of your ass so you could say "look at that evil, primitive religion of brown people over there."
You are a depraved scumbag who's literally trying to excuse and defend genocide against an entire group of people. You are a fascist. Oh, but let me guess, you're going to complain about the fact I called you that, aren't you? Well, too fucking bad because you are.
The US administration of Obama did nothing to stop mass shooters from killing children after Sandy Hook. The Biden administration is more vocal about wanting change, but he's still doing nothing. It's been accepted as a TERRIBLE THING *TM* that happens to people in the US. It makes my heart hurt, that this is not how people should live.
Everyone is so polarized now, it's incredibly hard to debate this the issue of Palestine and Israel, because the issue has been so charged for 80 years. We need to stop the hate..even the small things... this is what is making the discussions hard. I understand that most Jewish people in Israel and the American diaspora are children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors. October 7th doesn't need to be another TERRIBLE THING *TM* that happened to them, and also the invasion which happened to the people of Gaza. These two events need to be remembered and not forgotten in the annals of time. I hope these two events is where both sides saw each other's dignity and need to survive.
In 2016, when I was first getting really excited for Bernie, I had a bunch of my anti-electoralist commie saying that he would in time prove to be just another Democrat, that whatever his rhetoric he would prove to be a sheepdog whose primary role would be to push lefties back into the Democratic party. And I thought that was so stupid and fatalistic and annoying. Now, from the perspective of 7 years later, it's really hard not conclude that they were correct.
I think it is good for lefties to be involved in the Democratic party, the alternative is much less power. That doesn't mean the Left IS the Democratic party.
The democratic party is to the left of where they were in 2016 because of Sanders and his supporters...You weren't wrong, its just that NO ONE is going to not disappoint you eventually. Just don't set the bar so high, be able to laud the good and criticize the bad while being glad that there IS any good to BEGIN with!
That's how I've learned to parse the Obama presidency. Like any relationship, its a mixed bag at best and consider yourself lucky if it wasn't a complete bust
Thanks for articulating this important observation. Those who are willing to stand up for Palestine are our new leaders who demonstrate that they have a strong moral compass and are willing to stand by it.
Hamilton, while I don't disagree with your description of what it means to be a Leftist, I do disagree with your central point that what is happening in Palestine, and the reaction to it in the US, represents the ending of an "Era." While most of us Lefties are following the events in Palestine closely, for the vast majority of people in the US, including the Democratic Party's constituency, it is not of much importance.
We may wish it was otherwise, but the bread-and-butter issues that Bernie has consistently pushed throughout his political career are of far more importance to most people than a foreign war they don't see as involving the U.S. How many people have read one single article about what is happening in Palestine? The news on their social media feeds and TV comes in contradicting bits and pieces. The Dems Jewish constituency is split and I'm sure more of that constituency is closer to the position of AIPAC than that of JVP. Most of the non-Jewish constituency does not much care, and there is so much out there in the mainstream media suggesting that support for Palestinians equates with antisemitism that many are simply confused.
MLK's Riverside Church speech deserves to be remembered as in the ensuing years his legacy has been "sanitized" to ignore this element of his politics (as well as his anti-Capitalism). But there is no analogy with the public's attention on the U.S. war against Vietnam at that time and the public's present interest in anything happening in Palestine. By April of 1967 the U.S. had been fully engaged in the Vietnam War for over two years with thousands of U.S. military dead. The war in Palestine is less than two months old and the handful of U.S. citizens who have died are split between the victims of the Hammas attack and Israeli military action. Youth and Lefties may become increasingly involved in criticizing the Biden Administration's full-throated support of Israel, but the majority of the Dem Party's constituency will not follow their lead.
The working-class people Bernie is trying to pull back into the Democratic Party have little time to worry about a foreign war they don't see as involving them. And, while I fully agree with your attention on Palestine, the reinvigoration of the Dem Party remains those policies and advocacy that are directed at rolling back enough of neo-liberalism that working people will be convinced the Democratic Party is once again on their side.
As you point out the war in Palestine is barely a month old so obviously we don't expect it to have gained Vietnam-level just yet. That said, it has already produced the largest global peace marches since the Iraq War. It would be a mistake to underestimate how much this issue is outraging particularly young(ish... not all that young by now) people who are able to watch the atrocities of war unfold on their phones every day.
I use "era" in the sense of the era in which Bernie was more or less universally seen as the popular leader of the Left. That time, I think, is over now. That doesn't mean Bernie is going to disappear.
Something dawned on me about us progressives a while back. No matter WHAT negative things ANYONE thinks or says about us , we NEVER EVER EVER misrepresent who we are or what we stand for...ever. EVERYONE ELSE on the political spectrum does (though there are significant differences the further right you go)
We do not LIE about who we are. You can hate us, but you CANNOT call us two faced or hypocrites...And that's probably one of the reason THAT they hate us...Like the way that fundamentalist Muslims and Christians hate Atheists more than they do each other
Because in both cases we're not playing their fucking game and that takes power away from them (even though they hold the lionshare of it it drives them crazy to share it at all)
Your description of how Christians are supposed to behave is not how typical American (especially Evangelical) Christians actually behave. And your description of Muslims shows an ignorance so deep I can't even debate it. "I presume" is doing some serious heavy lifting there. As an atheist, I'm more scared of you than any random internet Muslim.
The Christian ETHOS is VERY different than the 'ethos' of the people who call themselves Christians, especially in this country...
The ethos is fine...in fact GREAT, the problem is with the practitioners. I've met plenty of good Christians but being Christian isn't what made them good. They were just good people who HAPPENED to be Christian
Many atheists practice the Christian ethos better than most Christians...just sayin.
I concede your assertion there are many fine atheists, although I can’t say I’m acquainted with any.
I will say however, that I’ve met many, many Christians who will say they are way better people since finding something to live for other than living for themselves, myself included. Not surprisingly, avoiding eternity in a fiery pit is a pretty strong motivator.
I've met plenty of Christians who hate Atheists. Your comment shows an ignorance of a lot of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians in the US.
Your comments about Muslims also display your ignorance and your hypocrisy. Christians have historically made war, pillaged, converted at the point of a sword, and the Bible never condemns polygamy. Acting like any of this is unique to Muslims is dishonest and bigoted. And plenty of Muslims seem to believe in ideas like pacifism, nonviolence, charity etc.
Religion is a man-made construct that can be twisted for both good and evil. Acting like Christianity is morally superior to Islam (or vice-versa) while ignoring the history and theology of both is just intellectually lazy.
Yes, you were. You were acting as if Christianity is morally superior to Islam.
"Why, do you suppose the world always seeking refuge in Judeo-Christian western nations and not so much, Muslim ones?"
First, the United States isn't a Judeo-Christian nation, it's a secular, pluralistic nation.
Second, Muslim-majority countries have taken in millions of Palestinian refugees.
Third, China is becoming a major power in the world that a lot of nations are turning to. They're not Judeo-Christian.
"If Christians are so threatening to you..."
Misrepresentation. I called out your bullshit argument on Christianity being morally superior to Islam. I don't really care what your religion is, as long as you're not trying to impose it on others.
"...maybe you seek refuge is say, Pakistan or Malaysia?"
So, in other words, if I criticize my country, I should just leave otherwise STFU?
Do you have anything beyond American Exceptionalist talking points?
I understand what you're saying John, but as an Atheist I have to disagree. My son read every holy book for each religion and formed his own opinion to also be an Atheist. His father is a Christian, although his disgust with the current crop of Christians keeps him moving away from them more each day.
I have been at the end of Christian hate of Atheists for decades. I spent a lot of time at the schools when that hate, and abuse was aimed at my son. He's grown up and a teacher now and respects everyone's right to their own religion, but the memories of what he endured, even by family members, will stay with him forever.
I'm so used to the hate from Christians thrown at me it amuses me now instead of making me angry. However, the vilest abuse over being an Atheist I've encountered was from Christians, not Jews or Muslims. Like my son, I respect everyone's religion and never make derogatory comments towards any religion to anyone. I don't think anyone is ignorant for being a part of a religion. I just don't participate.
I certainly appreciate your kind tone as well as your perspective.
I see two likely disconnects.
1. Any Christian behaving with hostility is a really poor example and that hostility may coincide with their religion but that doesn’t mean it correlates.
2. I was talking to a black friend about a mutual acquaintance, neither of us liked, especially. He asserted the guy was clearly a racist because he was always lousy to my friend. I explained that I never saw racism. I just figured he was just a jerk.
Maybe the hostility your son faced had more to do with personality and it was easy to categorize typical childish bad acts as resulting from hostility to atheists and not just kids being lousy.
In elementary school they jumped him and tried to baptize him by burying him in pea stone on the playground at recess. They weren't playing. In high school a teacher told him he was going to burn in hell because he didn't accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. This is just two of many examples. His aunt and uncle told him he wasn't pure and his adult cousin told him he was going to hell on his Facebook page. He was 17 at the time.
I used to classify myself as agnostic because I always believed in the “I don't know and you don't either” thought process. My Atheist friends (I have friends in many religions and no religion) told me I was in denial about being an Atheist. Ha! I don't get intimidated so I just laughed. But, after years of watching so much hate from fundagelicals about whole groups of people, I decided I could never be part of organized religion.
By the way, I do appreciate the cordial conversation about this.
There are strong denominational distinctions, which I experienced first hand, Christian Science, later Baptist and now Presbyterian, and a few variations in between.
I’m now a Calvinist, meaning if you’re not chosen, I can’t help you. That’s between you and God.
Evangelicals believe they can persuade or even argue you into Heaven.
Sadly, the “polite” Evangelicals and other Christians who hold this belief yet, are not bothered to approach you are seen as “the good ones” for keeping it to themselves.
The true Evangelicals are just putting “love your neighbor” into action.
While it can be annoying, and burying your son under playground gravel shows really bad parenting, that Evangelical is just showing love. They don’t hand out merit badges for that. It’s just love. Detractors who point and call it “hate” couldn’t be farther from the truth.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s apathy.
That Christian neighbor who leaves you alone is “lukewarm” and lacks either love or courage or both.
Mark Shields, the late syndicated columnist - no right-wing guy by any standard - used to emphasize how politics is about addition, not subtraction - or division for that matter. Bernie Sanders has been an effective spokesman for his views over many years because he has argued compellingly, using facts and reason. I hope “the left” does not abandon his approach altogether because its voice will become less compelling than it often should be. Reasonable people can and do disagree; compromise is not surrender.
There will come a time where both sides will need to do diplomacy, and I really don't know what that will look like. It kinda scares me honestly, what the Emergency Government wants to do to Gaza.
When we look back at the history, one truly frustrating aspect is how close the world came to seeing a workable path forward, only to watch it blocked by assassination or unreason. No one will be totally happy with whatever compromise finally works, but that generally signals success at compromise.
Foreign readers are cautioned to substitute "American Left" for "Left" everywhere, since this is not at all about the Pink Tide in Latin America, or British Labour, or the Canadian NDP. (That alone tells you something, as "Leftism" is a trans-national concept...the American Left has separate issues.)
"Left" is two things that can be orthogonal: Cory Doctrow provided the separate definitions: a "progressive" works against there being about 150 people who set all the rules for the world; a "liberal" is fine with that, as long as the group has proper representation of minorities. The Clintons were anti-progressive liberals, so were they "Left"...on average? (And Richie Riche Sunak literally embodies the contradiction, as an oppressive billionaire...of colour!)
The liberal/progressive split was always sharpest for America, since American politicians have to sign on to some degree with Vietnam, Iraq, and other crimes. Even Bernie could only put very restrained effort into Iraq opposition - where were our congressional torture hearings? So much harder for American politicians to look Liberal, when your bombers are compromising other's right to life.
It's only possible to bring up some new atrocity as morally-compromising the current crop, by ignoring the old atrocities. "Allied Air War Struck Broadly in Iraq", google that for Barton Gellman's June 27, 1991 article on the bombing of Iraq power stations, shutting down water treatment plants. 170,000 kids-under-5 dead in the ensuing epidemics. Nearly nobody even knows about it, NYT article and all, because we looked away, hard, as soon as possible.
As we will here. Progressive issues are wages, hours, precarity, pensions; dead kids overseas is a Liberal issue, about their human rights. It will lose. Those issues always have. Even torture.
Predicting the End of Bernie is cheap and easy, of course; he's very old. No points awarded.
The main point is that while American politicians can be progressive, in favour of less economic inequality, they *cannot* be really liberal about human-rights and foreign policy,. and remain enough inside the "Overton Window" of discussion that allows them the support to pursue progressive goals.
There were comparable moral paragons to those who call today for a ceasefire, when the human-rights atrocities were being committed by America itself, at Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan. They protested and protested, and were not much joined; there were few marches, and they did not grow, and the ongoing human-rights horrors in all three locations were just sullenly accepted, by the only "Left" visible to me, for *decades*.
The more-compromised, human-rights-weaklings, bad liberals, who offered only a few muted protests, who indicated their willingness to vote against Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo if somebody would just bring a good bill the floor, (never came)...they all still had their jobs.
So, my main point is: you're wrong. "The Left" will forgive the ceasefire-weaklings. Moral paragonhood will not be demanded, any more than it was for previous opportunities to show courage, in recent years.
NB: Our issue may be definitional of "The Left". You can't throw the Clintons out of it, not in America these days, because it's a binary distinction, and The Right is entirely occupied by Trump. David Frum is also part of "The Left", these days, as I'm forced to define the term. You only have two parties to vote for.
The Red Scare purge and the McCarthyite purge and the Cold War in general had left “the left” a floating signifier in America, since there was virtually no left left to give it form. Center-left liberals have since taken ownership of the term here.
Having seen this cycle way too many times, I have to ask: what happens after a cease fire?
Tougher: what needs to be done to move past the cycle and how do we accomplish it? (The underlying assumption there is that the solution is dual state situation.)
After a ceasefire, Hamas likely regroups and burrows even deeper among the innocent Palestinian people. Then they’ll eventually attack Israel again. Since, we all know and conveniently forget, their primary aim is the elimination of all Jews. (And Christians, women, gays, Westerners, etc.)
Flip side is that since the cycle won’t be broken, your prediction is pretty spot on except for overlooking pushing yet another generation to terrorism.
I totally agree. I wish one side could just stop playing the game. But if political parties in most Western democracies can’t do it, it certainly won’t happen in the Middle East. One thing I hate about this is that the New Left refuses to hold two thoughts in their mind at one time. I’ve identified as a pretty full Lefty most of my life and believe that Palestinians should be free and safe, but the coalescence around “Free Palestine” and intertwined tacit support of Hamas’ aims at Jewish elimination is an extremely harsh betrayal by a group that I always felt were my allies.
All the terms you misuse and selectively apply, are someone else’s. That makes you a tool.
For example:
Genocide-the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
Hamas has elimination of the Jews in its charter and backs that up with a constant barrage of missile attacks since the Jews left (yes, not just the government, but 8,000 Jewish civilians left) in 2005.
The totally unprovoked Hamas/Palestinian attack on Jewish civilians, with wholesale slaughter, rape, execution and medieval mass kidnapping on a scale never seen in history (maybe since the Barbarians in the 1700s), was/is actual genocide.
Warning people who are sheltering the perpetrators in their midst that they have two weeks to leave before the bombs come, is a NOT genocide no matter how much you want to obfuscate, twist terms, to make it fit. Just because Ilhan Omar calls it genocide, doesn’t make it genocide.
Israel has nukes. If genocide is what they wanted they could do genocide.
Since you are slo “passionate” that you can’t/won’t see the difference (and stop cussing) between those engaged in actual genocide and the Jews who want their kidnapped people back, you are either a moron, a tool, or just a garden variety anti-Semite. Either way, you’re boring.
What is the price you will accept? Will you accept 1200+ people being murdered and 239 people being kidnapped?
Will you accept women and girls being raped, some of them dying from their pelvises being broken by gang rape, some of those being infants and toddlers?
Will you accept children being tortured in front of their parents only then for all of them to be murdered?
Will you accept families being burned alive in their homes while locked in safe rooms to escape terrorists?
Will you accept 25,000 rockets fired from neighboring countries at civilian populations?
Will you accept those rockets hitting schools and hospitals that have zero soldiers or terrorists using them as bases?
The answer is a resounding YES, you will accept that. You do accept that. And this is why the left is losing a passionate group of supporters of most issues over one issue that is not domestic.
The new litmus test of the Left is support of Palestinians and blaming Israel when Palestinians kill Jews. The Left now requires that Jews take getting killed lying down, just like during the lead up to the Holocaust.
Jews stand up to racism first. We stood against Trump’s Muslim ban first. We linked arms with BLM immediately. We always do and we do so knowing we will be deserted when the latest antisemites target us.
They lost my vote. #neveragainisnow
The synagogue I bike past in Brookline has a BLM sign still up. I commend them because it is a really strong moral stance to say the BLM and that Israel and the dispossession of Jews matters.
This page since 10/7 has blamed Israel. It has blamed peaceful old ladies on a kibbutz who did not deserve to die the way they did.
I served as a Peace Corps Volunteer with Palestinian refugees. I lived with them for a year.
The Niqbah is incredibly complicated.
Collective punishment for 10/7 of Palestinians would be a war crime.
Are we seeing that? We don't know.
But you know who has placed collective punishment on Palestinians? Other Arab states. They have kept "the Palestinian problem " alive and well for generations because it serves their own needs.
You think the other Arab countries don't hate/distain their co-religionists? That they stand in solidarity with Palestinians? They absolutely do not and in many cases hate them more than they hate the Jews.
We don't know if we're seeing collective punishment of Palestinians? Are you out of your mind? YES we're seeing that. The IDF is shelling Gaza indiscriminately. Innocent civilians just trying to live their lives are having them destroyed because of where they live and what they believe and what they look like. What Hamas did to Israel is unforgivable, but retaliating in this manner is inhuman. I'm not blaming Israel or Jews generally or asking either group to lay down and die. I'm asking them to see the lives they're destroying in pursuit of vengeance.
I’m sure you would have felt that way when the allies fought the Nazis. I’m just certain of it.
Human lives are human lives, regardless of the time period or the combatants. If you think differently, you're a sociopath.
Human lives all have value, but that has nothing to do with the question at hand.
The question is justice.
Truly genocidal maniacs on one side started this, for the FOURTH TIME, and is holding babies as hostages.
By no standard ever in history, have the victims of such atrocities been subjected to this level of propaganda about not fighting back or making every effort to rescue their people.
Hamas had two weeks prior to the invasion to free those “human lives,” about whom you apparently don’t care a tinkers cuss, but chose to hide them under hospitals and kill a couple along the way.
Israel has embarked on a just war, which is why the civilized western world supports them. That you, Iran, Putin and Xi are on the same side is telling.
Given that you've decided what I think already, I won't bother to engage any further. Have a good day.
Do you remember what happened in Syria with Yarmouk camp? Assad left it to an ISIS affiliate. He didn't try to protect them. This thing about Arab nations protecting the Palestinians is only as good as what they can get out of it. I read that Biden tried to convince Jordan to take them all from Gaza before the IDF went in, he prolly said no because he still has millions of Syrian refugees living there. I also heard they asked Sisi, and just like a Pharaoh, would dump them in the Sinai to live. It's depressing, these people have been innocent of wanting nothing but self-determination and territory to call home. It's so disrespectful and cruel what has allowed to go on for 80 years.
The Gazans had territory and self-determination since 2005. They chose war, for the fourth time.
Thank you for making this point, because I cannot stand the ignorance of some of the left towards Hamas or terrorism and their self-destructive need to blame Israel first & not once be an ally to a country constantly under attack. Are there flaws in Israels political system? Yes. Is this the moment to harp on them? No.
Under international law, if you're under occupation, you have the right to resist said occupation by any means necessary.
And no, I won't condemn Hamas while Israel is trying to commit a genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza (which you apparently don't care about).
You're a morally depraved scumbag supporting a genocidal fascist state.
Go fuck yourself.
lol. You can rape. Even dead women. Behead. Murder. In an orgiastic fury. You are laughable. You are a joke.
Israel actually has a pretty big problem with raping Palestinians and Ukranian refugees. But you ignore that.
Israel is committing a genocide against the people of Gaza. If you can't condemn that, you are morally depraved.
Palestinians deserve human rights. If you can't bring yourself to that simple premise, you're morally depraved.
Atypical antipsychotics may help with your delusions.
Just out of curiosity, how is it a delusion to say Palestinians deserve human rights?
Basic research would help you stop being a fascist.
STFU you deranged Zionist. You're literally saying that the Palestinians should just bow down and accept getting wiped out by Israel and you say nothing. Everything you said was a proven lie and you have nothing to say about Israel bombing mosques, hospitals, schools and a fucking refugee camp. You have nothing to say about Israeli leaders comparing Palestinians to "Amalek" and calling for them to be wiped.
You are a genocidal fascist. And neither history nor the world is on your side. Go fuck yourself.
Another Jew hater progressive.
So, it's "Jew-hating" to oppose genocide?
That's funny. Tell that to the many Jewish people who are condemning Israel.
And Anti-Semites seem to be lining up behind Israel: Christian Zionists, American and European Fascists, Azov Nazis, Neo-Nazis, are all supporting Israel, because Israel is implementing the policies of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and now genocide that they support.
My opposition to Israel has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, it has to do with Israel's policies of occupation, settler colonialism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and now, genocide. If Israel was a Christian state, a Muslim state, a Hindu state, a Buddhist state, a pagan state, or a secular atheist state and was still carrying out these exact same policies, I'd still be condemning them.
And your statement is itself anti-Semitic since you're conflating being Jewish with support Israel, which doesn't work when you remember the fact that many Jewish people all over the world oppose Israel's actions.
You are weaponizing a very real and very dangerous problem, anti-Semitism, to shut down criticism and condemnation of a genocidal, fascist state (which is why you say nothing of what Israel is doing right now to the Palestinians).
Go fuck yourself.
Progressives ‘just be kind’. Trust me I know antisemitism when I see it from both left and right. And I’m sure you are so concerned about all global conflicts because you know ‘all lives matter’.
"Trust me I know antisemitism when I see it from both left and right."
You're literally accusing anyone who criticizes Israel of being an antisemite while ignoring the actual antisemitism of Israel's supporters and conflating Israel with being Jewish (thus erasing Anti-Zionist Jews). You are just smearing anyone who criticizes a genocidal, apartheid fascist state of "Jew-hating" because you're a depraved scumbag.
"And I’m sure you are so concerned about all global conflicts because you know ‘all lives matter’."
It's funny that you're accusing me of being racist while you're supporting a genocidal, apartheid fascist state that calls Palestinians "animals", compares Gaza to Amalek, and remind me again how Israel treats Ethiopian and Palestinian Jews? It's almost like you're projecting.
‘Depraved scumbag’. Describing Hamas. Obviously
Why you so foul all the time? It’s getting old and boring.
Because people like you are defending genocide.
Because you are a foul delusional person. Who lived off hate and fantasies.
Projection. Also, did you just admit to supporting genocide?
No I ignore your dumbass accusations.
When you literally accuse someone of speaking “literally” when they were speaking figuratively or even hypothetically you display an intellect literally lower than a fourth grader.
Except they're not doing that. They're using actual lies Israel has pushed to justify genocide against the Palestinians to bitch and whine about people not supporting their genocide.
The disconnect on this issue seems to stem from definitions like “genocide.”
You can yell genocide all you want but that doesn’t make it true.
It is curious why the left is so liberally twisting the meaning of “genocide,” from intent to exterminate an entire group based on ethnicity or religion, to any military action no matter how restrained.
It seems that when your side does actual genocide you say it’s mere freedom fighting, but when the other side responds it’s genocide.
Hamas literally targeted civilians, men, women, and children for wholesale slaughter. Israel literally gave two weeks notice to the men, women and children to go south to safety.
Were genocide the goal of Israel they would have Carpet bombed the entirety of Gaza starting day one. That could fairly be called genocide.
Maybe google these words before using them inaccurately.
Another exercise would be to take your definitions and apply them to each side, equally.
Alright you depraved scumbag, what Israel's doing in Gaza has actually been described as genocide by many, including a UN Human Rights Lawyer who resigned in protest over what was happening. Israel has also openly compared the people of Gaza to "Amalek" from the Bible, a people that were exterminated by the Israelites under divine instruction. And Israelis have been calling for genocide against the Palestinians for years.
Israel is literally bombing mosques, hospitals, schools and refugee camps under the guise of "defeating Hamas" (funny how they didn't know where Hamas was before October 7th, but now they suddenly know exactly where they are. And funny how them trying to "take out Hamas" looks exactly like them just killing people and using Hamas as a retroactive justification for it). Israel's attacks on Gaza both now and before October 7th killed men, women and children (the death counts now are actually higher than the entirety of the Russian invasion of Ukraine), but you don't care about them because they're Muslim (you already demonstrated in a previous comment that you're an Islamophobic bigot).
And no, I'm not going to "apply these terms equally" when 1) one of the two sides not only isn't trying to commit genocide but is actually the victims of one and 2) it's pretty clearly bullshit you pulled out of your ass so you could say "look at that evil, primitive religion of brown people over there."
You are a depraved scumbag who's literally trying to excuse and defend genocide against an entire group of people. You are a fascist. Oh, but let me guess, you're going to complain about the fact I called you that, aren't you? Well, too fucking bad because you are.
STFU and go fuck yourself.
Hello, @HamiltonNolan
Are these akin to the Breitbart comments about which you cautioned me?
The US administration of Obama did nothing to stop mass shooters from killing children after Sandy Hook. The Biden administration is more vocal about wanting change, but he's still doing nothing. It's been accepted as a TERRIBLE THING *TM* that happens to people in the US. It makes my heart hurt, that this is not how people should live.
Everyone is so polarized now, it's incredibly hard to debate this the issue of Palestine and Israel, because the issue has been so charged for 80 years. We need to stop the hate..even the small things... this is what is making the discussions hard. I understand that most Jewish people in Israel and the American diaspora are children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors. October 7th doesn't need to be another TERRIBLE THING *TM* that happened to them, and also the invasion which happened to the people of Gaza. These two events need to be remembered and not forgotten in the annals of time. I hope these two events is where both sides saw each other's dignity and need to survive.
In 2016, when I was first getting really excited for Bernie, I had a bunch of my anti-electoralist commie saying that he would in time prove to be just another Democrat, that whatever his rhetoric he would prove to be a sheepdog whose primary role would be to push lefties back into the Democratic party. And I thought that was so stupid and fatalistic and annoying. Now, from the perspective of 7 years later, it's really hard not conclude that they were correct.
It doesn't feel good!
I think it is good for lefties to be involved in the Democratic party, the alternative is much less power. That doesn't mean the Left IS the Democratic party.
yep
Its the one of two VIABLE parties that is the closest fit to the progressive agenda...
You work with what you have at the moment and use the 'between times' to grow better options
The democratic party is to the left of where they were in 2016 because of Sanders and his supporters...You weren't wrong, its just that NO ONE is going to not disappoint you eventually. Just don't set the bar so high, be able to laud the good and criticize the bad while being glad that there IS any good to BEGIN with!
That's how I've learned to parse the Obama presidency. Like any relationship, its a mixed bag at best and consider yourself lucky if it wasn't a complete bust
Hoping to god that the Democrats or Left doesn't get infiltrated by the toxic ideas of Libertarians.
Thanks for articulating this important observation. Those who are willing to stand up for Palestine are our new leaders who demonstrate that they have a strong moral compass and are willing to stand by it.
Thanks Hamilton. Clear as usual.
John Crane from the guardian, said:
If we get the government we deserve, we must all have done some bad shit in a previous life.
Hamilton, while I don't disagree with your description of what it means to be a Leftist, I do disagree with your central point that what is happening in Palestine, and the reaction to it in the US, represents the ending of an "Era." While most of us Lefties are following the events in Palestine closely, for the vast majority of people in the US, including the Democratic Party's constituency, it is not of much importance.
We may wish it was otherwise, but the bread-and-butter issues that Bernie has consistently pushed throughout his political career are of far more importance to most people than a foreign war they don't see as involving the U.S. How many people have read one single article about what is happening in Palestine? The news on their social media feeds and TV comes in contradicting bits and pieces. The Dems Jewish constituency is split and I'm sure more of that constituency is closer to the position of AIPAC than that of JVP. Most of the non-Jewish constituency does not much care, and there is so much out there in the mainstream media suggesting that support for Palestinians equates with antisemitism that many are simply confused.
MLK's Riverside Church speech deserves to be remembered as in the ensuing years his legacy has been "sanitized" to ignore this element of his politics (as well as his anti-Capitalism). But there is no analogy with the public's attention on the U.S. war against Vietnam at that time and the public's present interest in anything happening in Palestine. By April of 1967 the U.S. had been fully engaged in the Vietnam War for over two years with thousands of U.S. military dead. The war in Palestine is less than two months old and the handful of U.S. citizens who have died are split between the victims of the Hammas attack and Israeli military action. Youth and Lefties may become increasingly involved in criticizing the Biden Administration's full-throated support of Israel, but the majority of the Dem Party's constituency will not follow their lead.
The working-class people Bernie is trying to pull back into the Democratic Party have little time to worry about a foreign war they don't see as involving them. And, while I fully agree with your attention on Palestine, the reinvigoration of the Dem Party remains those policies and advocacy that are directed at rolling back enough of neo-liberalism that working people will be convinced the Democratic Party is once again on their side.
As you point out the war in Palestine is barely a month old so obviously we don't expect it to have gained Vietnam-level just yet. That said, it has already produced the largest global peace marches since the Iraq War. It would be a mistake to underestimate how much this issue is outraging particularly young(ish... not all that young by now) people who are able to watch the atrocities of war unfold on their phones every day.
I use "era" in the sense of the era in which Bernie was more or less universally seen as the popular leader of the Left. That time, I think, is over now. That doesn't mean Bernie is going to disappear.
excellent article...
Something dawned on me about us progressives a while back. No matter WHAT negative things ANYONE thinks or says about us , we NEVER EVER EVER misrepresent who we are or what we stand for...ever. EVERYONE ELSE on the political spectrum does (though there are significant differences the further right you go)
We do not LIE about who we are. You can hate us, but you CANNOT call us two faced or hypocrites...And that's probably one of the reason THAT they hate us...Like the way that fundamentalist Muslims and Christians hate Atheists more than they do each other
Because in both cases we're not playing their fucking game and that takes power away from them (even though they hold the lionshare of it it drives them crazy to share it at all)
I can’t speak for Muslims, but suggesting Christians hate atheists shows a basic ignorance of the Christian ethos.
We are called to be like Christ. Love everyone. All God’s children. “Let God sort them out.” That kind of thing.
I presume Muslims are called to follow Mohammed. Lots of wives, make war, pillage, convert at the tip of the spear.
If you’re an atheist, I’d tread more lightly in those circles. Christians are more likely to invite you to enjoy a casserole and maybe bore you.
You can disagree and stuff here but if you turn this into like the 9/11-era Breitbart comment section I am gonna block you.
I prefer a constructive dialogue over sycophants in an echo chamber, but cancelling a dissenting voice would be your call, wouldn’t it.
Dude. Cut and paste dribble is not a good look, even when you include a multi syllabic word.
Your description of how Christians are supposed to behave is not how typical American (especially Evangelical) Christians actually behave. And your description of Muslims shows an ignorance so deep I can't even debate it. "I presume" is doing some serious heavy lifting there. As an atheist, I'm more scared of you than any random internet Muslim.
The Christian ETHOS is VERY different than the 'ethos' of the people who call themselves Christians, especially in this country...
The ethos is fine...in fact GREAT, the problem is with the practitioners. I've met plenty of good Christians but being Christian isn't what made them good. They were just good people who HAPPENED to be Christian
Many atheists practice the Christian ethos better than most Christians...just sayin.
I concede your assertion there are many fine atheists, although I can’t say I’m acquainted with any.
I will say however, that I’ve met many, many Christians who will say they are way better people since finding something to live for other than living for themselves, myself included. Not surprisingly, avoiding eternity in a fiery pit is a pretty strong motivator.
So, you can't be moral or do things greater than yourself without the threat of eternal punishment?
And...considering one of the things you're supporting is genocide in Gaza, maybe you should rethink your moral compass.
I've met plenty of Christians who hate Atheists. Your comment shows an ignorance of a lot of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians in the US.
Your comments about Muslims also display your ignorance and your hypocrisy. Christians have historically made war, pillaged, converted at the point of a sword, and the Bible never condemns polygamy. Acting like any of this is unique to Muslims is dishonest and bigoted. And plenty of Muslims seem to believe in ideas like pacifism, nonviolence, charity etc.
Religion is a man-made construct that can be twisted for both good and evil. Acting like Christianity is morally superior to Islam (or vice-versa) while ignoring the history and theology of both is just intellectually lazy.
I’m not “acting like” anything. Why, do you suppose the world always seeking refuge in Judeo-Christian western nations and not so much, Muslim ones?
If Christians are so threatening to you, maybe you seek refuge is say, Pakistan or Malaysia?
"I’m not “acting like” anything."
Yes, you were. You were acting as if Christianity is morally superior to Islam.
"Why, do you suppose the world always seeking refuge in Judeo-Christian western nations and not so much, Muslim ones?"
First, the United States isn't a Judeo-Christian nation, it's a secular, pluralistic nation.
Second, Muslim-majority countries have taken in millions of Palestinian refugees.
Third, China is becoming a major power in the world that a lot of nations are turning to. They're not Judeo-Christian.
"If Christians are so threatening to you..."
Misrepresentation. I called out your bullshit argument on Christianity being morally superior to Islam. I don't really care what your religion is, as long as you're not trying to impose it on others.
"...maybe you seek refuge is say, Pakistan or Malaysia?"
So, in other words, if I criticize my country, I should just leave otherwise STFU?
Do you have anything beyond American Exceptionalist talking points?
I understand what you're saying John, but as an Atheist I have to disagree. My son read every holy book for each religion and formed his own opinion to also be an Atheist. His father is a Christian, although his disgust with the current crop of Christians keeps him moving away from them more each day.
I have been at the end of Christian hate of Atheists for decades. I spent a lot of time at the schools when that hate, and abuse was aimed at my son. He's grown up and a teacher now and respects everyone's right to their own religion, but the memories of what he endured, even by family members, will stay with him forever.
I'm so used to the hate from Christians thrown at me it amuses me now instead of making me angry. However, the vilest abuse over being an Atheist I've encountered was from Christians, not Jews or Muslims. Like my son, I respect everyone's religion and never make derogatory comments towards any religion to anyone. I don't think anyone is ignorant for being a part of a religion. I just don't participate.
I am also curious, if I may. Why atheist (hostile) and not merely agnostic (disinterested)?
I certainly appreciate your kind tone as well as your perspective.
I see two likely disconnects.
1. Any Christian behaving with hostility is a really poor example and that hostility may coincide with their religion but that doesn’t mean it correlates.
2. I was talking to a black friend about a mutual acquaintance, neither of us liked, especially. He asserted the guy was clearly a racist because he was always lousy to my friend. I explained that I never saw racism. I just figured he was just a jerk.
Maybe the hostility your son faced had more to do with personality and it was easy to categorize typical childish bad acts as resulting from hostility to atheists and not just kids being lousy.
In elementary school they jumped him and tried to baptize him by burying him in pea stone on the playground at recess. They weren't playing. In high school a teacher told him he was going to burn in hell because he didn't accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. This is just two of many examples. His aunt and uncle told him he wasn't pure and his adult cousin told him he was going to hell on his Facebook page. He was 17 at the time.
I used to classify myself as agnostic because I always believed in the “I don't know and you don't either” thought process. My Atheist friends (I have friends in many religions and no religion) told me I was in denial about being an Atheist. Ha! I don't get intimidated so I just laughed. But, after years of watching so much hate from fundagelicals about whole groups of people, I decided I could never be part of organized religion.
By the way, I do appreciate the cordial conversation about this.
As do I.
I’m sorry for your son’s maltreatment.
There are strong denominational distinctions, which I experienced first hand, Christian Science, later Baptist and now Presbyterian, and a few variations in between.
I’m now a Calvinist, meaning if you’re not chosen, I can’t help you. That’s between you and God.
Evangelicals believe they can persuade or even argue you into Heaven.
Sadly, the “polite” Evangelicals and other Christians who hold this belief yet, are not bothered to approach you are seen as “the good ones” for keeping it to themselves.
The true Evangelicals are just putting “love your neighbor” into action.
While it can be annoying, and burying your son under playground gravel shows really bad parenting, that Evangelical is just showing love. They don’t hand out merit badges for that. It’s just love. Detractors who point and call it “hate” couldn’t be farther from the truth.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s apathy.
That Christian neighbor who leaves you alone is “lukewarm” and lacks either love or courage or both.
Mark Shields, the late syndicated columnist - no right-wing guy by any standard - used to emphasize how politics is about addition, not subtraction - or division for that matter. Bernie Sanders has been an effective spokesman for his views over many years because he has argued compellingly, using facts and reason. I hope “the left” does not abandon his approach altogether because its voice will become less compelling than it often should be. Reasonable people can and do disagree; compromise is not surrender.
There will come a time where both sides will need to do diplomacy, and I really don't know what that will look like. It kinda scares me honestly, what the Emergency Government wants to do to Gaza.
When we look back at the history, one truly frustrating aspect is how close the world came to seeing a workable path forward, only to watch it blocked by assassination or unreason. No one will be totally happy with whatever compromise finally works, but that generally signals success at compromise.
What does the Cease Fire Now movement want to do about Hamas?
They don’t have an answer. It doesn’t fit the narrative.
Fair question.
Foreign readers are cautioned to substitute "American Left" for "Left" everywhere, since this is not at all about the Pink Tide in Latin America, or British Labour, or the Canadian NDP. (That alone tells you something, as "Leftism" is a trans-national concept...the American Left has separate issues.)
"Left" is two things that can be orthogonal: Cory Doctrow provided the separate definitions: a "progressive" works against there being about 150 people who set all the rules for the world; a "liberal" is fine with that, as long as the group has proper representation of minorities. The Clintons were anti-progressive liberals, so were they "Left"...on average? (And Richie Riche Sunak literally embodies the contradiction, as an oppressive billionaire...of colour!)
The liberal/progressive split was always sharpest for America, since American politicians have to sign on to some degree with Vietnam, Iraq, and other crimes. Even Bernie could only put very restrained effort into Iraq opposition - where were our congressional torture hearings? So much harder for American politicians to look Liberal, when your bombers are compromising other's right to life.
It's only possible to bring up some new atrocity as morally-compromising the current crop, by ignoring the old atrocities. "Allied Air War Struck Broadly in Iraq", google that for Barton Gellman's June 27, 1991 article on the bombing of Iraq power stations, shutting down water treatment plants. 170,000 kids-under-5 dead in the ensuing epidemics. Nearly nobody even knows about it, NYT article and all, because we looked away, hard, as soon as possible.
As we will here. Progressive issues are wages, hours, precarity, pensions; dead kids overseas is a Liberal issue, about their human rights. It will lose. Those issues always have. Even torture.
Predicting the End of Bernie is cheap and easy, of course; he's very old. No points awarded.
I'm not sure what the main point of this comment is but the Clintons are not part of the American Left, to answer that question.
The main point is that while American politicians can be progressive, in favour of less economic inequality, they *cannot* be really liberal about human-rights and foreign policy,. and remain enough inside the "Overton Window" of discussion that allows them the support to pursue progressive goals.
There were comparable moral paragons to those who call today for a ceasefire, when the human-rights atrocities were being committed by America itself, at Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan. They protested and protested, and were not much joined; there were few marches, and they did not grow, and the ongoing human-rights horrors in all three locations were just sullenly accepted, by the only "Left" visible to me, for *decades*.
The more-compromised, human-rights-weaklings, bad liberals, who offered only a few muted protests, who indicated their willingness to vote against Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo if somebody would just bring a good bill the floor, (never came)...they all still had their jobs.
So, my main point is: you're wrong. "The Left" will forgive the ceasefire-weaklings. Moral paragonhood will not be demanded, any more than it was for previous opportunities to show courage, in recent years.
NB: Our issue may be definitional of "The Left". You can't throw the Clintons out of it, not in America these days, because it's a binary distinction, and The Right is entirely occupied by Trump. David Frum is also part of "The Left", these days, as I'm forced to define the term. You only have two parties to vote for.
I'm going to miss his mittens.
The Red Scare purge and the McCarthyite purge and the Cold War in general had left “the left” a floating signifier in America, since there was virtually no left left to give it form. Center-left liberals have since taken ownership of the term here.
Having seen this cycle way too many times, I have to ask: what happens after a cease fire?
Tougher: what needs to be done to move past the cycle and how do we accomplish it? (The underlying assumption there is that the solution is dual state situation.)
After a ceasefire, Hamas likely regroups and burrows even deeper among the innocent Palestinian people. Then they’ll eventually attack Israel again. Since, we all know and conveniently forget, their primary aim is the elimination of all Jews. (And Christians, women, gays, Westerners, etc.)
That’s the cycle that needs to be broken.
Flip side is that since the cycle won’t be broken, your prediction is pretty spot on except for overlooking pushing yet another generation to terrorism.
I totally agree. I wish one side could just stop playing the game. But if political parties in most Western democracies can’t do it, it certainly won’t happen in the Middle East. One thing I hate about this is that the New Left refuses to hold two thoughts in their mind at one time. I’ve identified as a pretty full Lefty most of my life and believe that Palestinians should be free and safe, but the coalescence around “Free Palestine” and intertwined tacit support of Hamas’ aims at Jewish elimination is an extremely harsh betrayal by a group that I always felt were my allies.
Dude.
All the terms you misuse and selectively apply, are someone else’s. That makes you a tool.
For example:
Genocide-the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
Hamas has elimination of the Jews in its charter and backs that up with a constant barrage of missile attacks since the Jews left (yes, not just the government, but 8,000 Jewish civilians left) in 2005.
The totally unprovoked Hamas/Palestinian attack on Jewish civilians, with wholesale slaughter, rape, execution and medieval mass kidnapping on a scale never seen in history (maybe since the Barbarians in the 1700s), was/is actual genocide.
Warning people who are sheltering the perpetrators in their midst that they have two weeks to leave before the bombs come, is a NOT genocide no matter how much you want to obfuscate, twist terms, to make it fit. Just because Ilhan Omar calls it genocide, doesn’t make it genocide.
Israel has nukes. If genocide is what they wanted they could do genocide.
Since you are slo “passionate” that you can’t/won’t see the difference (and stop cussing) between those engaged in actual genocide and the Jews who want their kidnapped people back, you are either a moron, a tool, or just a garden variety anti-Semite. Either way, you’re boring.
Fine portrait of the House useful idiot caucus.
Are they useful idiots are part of the vanguard as Mr. Nolan seems to suggest.
Left leaders on Team Blue deserve a party more in line with their principles.
You so called progressive are the most morally corrupt group in the US today. You are rape apologists. Thats just for starters.
It’s so utterly idiotic for a synagogue to have a BLM sign up at this point. Doesn’t win them brownie points among the Jew haters. It’s a bad joke
They have a really terrible landlord though, that gives them essentials to live for “good behaviour.”