Your description of how Christians are supposed to behave is not how typical American (especially Evangelical) Christians actually behave. And your description of Muslims shows an ignorance so deep I can't even debate it. "I presume" is doing some serious heavy lifting there. As an atheist, I'm more scared of you than any random internet Muslim.
The Christian ETHOS is VERY different than the 'ethos' of the people who call themselves Christians, especially in this country...
The ethos is fine...in fact GREAT, the problem is with the practitioners. I've met plenty of good Christians but being Christian isn't what made them good. They were just good people who HAPPENED to be Christian
Many atheists practice the Christian ethos better than most Christians...just sayin.
I concede your assertion there are many fine atheists, although I can’t say I’m acquainted with any.
I will say however, that I’ve met many, many Christians who will say they are way better people since finding something to live for other than living for themselves, myself included. Not surprisingly, avoiding eternity in a fiery pit is a pretty strong motivator.
I've met plenty of Christians who hate Atheists. Your comment shows an ignorance of a lot of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians in the US.
Your comments about Muslims also display your ignorance and your hypocrisy. Christians have historically made war, pillaged, converted at the point of a sword, and the Bible never condemns polygamy. Acting like any of this is unique to Muslims is dishonest and bigoted. And plenty of Muslims seem to believe in ideas like pacifism, nonviolence, charity etc.
Religion is a man-made construct that can be twisted for both good and evil. Acting like Christianity is morally superior to Islam (or vice-versa) while ignoring the history and theology of both is just intellectually lazy.
Yes, you were. You were acting as if Christianity is morally superior to Islam.
"Why, do you suppose the world always seeking refuge in Judeo-Christian western nations and not so much, Muslim ones?"
First, the United States isn't a Judeo-Christian nation, it's a secular, pluralistic nation.
Second, Muslim-majority countries have taken in millions of Palestinian refugees.
Third, China is becoming a major power in the world that a lot of nations are turning to. They're not Judeo-Christian.
"If Christians are so threatening to you..."
Misrepresentation. I called out your bullshit argument on Christianity being morally superior to Islam. I don't really care what your religion is, as long as you're not trying to impose it on others.
"...maybe you seek refuge is say, Pakistan or Malaysia?"
So, in other words, if I criticize my country, I should just leave otherwise STFU?
Do you have anything beyond American Exceptionalist talking points?
I understand what you're saying John, but as an Atheist I have to disagree. My son read every holy book for each religion and formed his own opinion to also be an Atheist. His father is a Christian, although his disgust with the current crop of Christians keeps him moving away from them more each day.
I have been at the end of Christian hate of Atheists for decades. I spent a lot of time at the schools when that hate, and abuse was aimed at my son. He's grown up and a teacher now and respects everyone's right to their own religion, but the memories of what he endured, even by family members, will stay with him forever.
I'm so used to the hate from Christians thrown at me it amuses me now instead of making me angry. However, the vilest abuse over being an Atheist I've encountered was from Christians, not Jews or Muslims. Like my son, I respect everyone's religion and never make derogatory comments towards any religion to anyone. I don't think anyone is ignorant for being a part of a religion. I just don't participate.
I certainly appreciate your kind tone as well as your perspective.
I see two likely disconnects.
1. Any Christian behaving with hostility is a really poor example and that hostility may coincide with their religion but that doesn’t mean it correlates.
2. I was talking to a black friend about a mutual acquaintance, neither of us liked, especially. He asserted the guy was clearly a racist because he was always lousy to my friend. I explained that I never saw racism. I just figured he was just a jerk.
Maybe the hostility your son faced had more to do with personality and it was easy to categorize typical childish bad acts as resulting from hostility to atheists and not just kids being lousy.
In elementary school they jumped him and tried to baptize him by burying him in pea stone on the playground at recess. They weren't playing. In high school a teacher told him he was going to burn in hell because he didn't accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. This is just two of many examples. His aunt and uncle told him he wasn't pure and his adult cousin told him he was going to hell on his Facebook page. He was 17 at the time.
I used to classify myself as agnostic because I always believed in the “I don't know and you don't either” thought process. My Atheist friends (I have friends in many religions and no religion) told me I was in denial about being an Atheist. Ha! I don't get intimidated so I just laughed. But, after years of watching so much hate from fundagelicals about whole groups of people, I decided I could never be part of organized religion.
By the way, I do appreciate the cordial conversation about this.
There are strong denominational distinctions, which I experienced first hand, Christian Science, later Baptist and now Presbyterian, and a few variations in between.
I’m now a Calvinist, meaning if you’re not chosen, I can’t help you. That’s between you and God.
Evangelicals believe they can persuade or even argue you into Heaven.
Sadly, the “polite” Evangelicals and other Christians who hold this belief yet, are not bothered to approach you are seen as “the good ones” for keeping it to themselves.
The true Evangelicals are just putting “love your neighbor” into action.
While it can be annoying, and burying your son under playground gravel shows really bad parenting, that Evangelical is just showing love. They don’t hand out merit badges for that. It’s just love. Detractors who point and call it “hate” couldn’t be farther from the truth.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s apathy.
That Christian neighbor who leaves you alone is “lukewarm” and lacks either love or courage or both.
I can’t speak for Muslims, but suggesting Christians hate atheists shows a basic ignorance of the Christian ethos.
We are called to be like Christ. Love everyone. All God’s children. “Let God sort them out.” That kind of thing.
I presume Muslims are called to follow Mohammed. Lots of wives, make war, pillage, convert at the tip of the spear.
If you’re an atheist, I’d tread more lightly in those circles. Christians are more likely to invite you to enjoy a casserole and maybe bore you.
You can disagree and stuff here but if you turn this into like the 9/11-era Breitbart comment section I am gonna block you.
I prefer a constructive dialogue over sycophants in an echo chamber, but cancelling a dissenting voice would be your call, wouldn’t it.
Dude. Cut and paste dribble is not a good look, even when you include a multi syllabic word.
Your description of how Christians are supposed to behave is not how typical American (especially Evangelical) Christians actually behave. And your description of Muslims shows an ignorance so deep I can't even debate it. "I presume" is doing some serious heavy lifting there. As an atheist, I'm more scared of you than any random internet Muslim.
The Christian ETHOS is VERY different than the 'ethos' of the people who call themselves Christians, especially in this country...
The ethos is fine...in fact GREAT, the problem is with the practitioners. I've met plenty of good Christians but being Christian isn't what made them good. They were just good people who HAPPENED to be Christian
Many atheists practice the Christian ethos better than most Christians...just sayin.
I concede your assertion there are many fine atheists, although I can’t say I’m acquainted with any.
I will say however, that I’ve met many, many Christians who will say they are way better people since finding something to live for other than living for themselves, myself included. Not surprisingly, avoiding eternity in a fiery pit is a pretty strong motivator.
So, you can't be moral or do things greater than yourself without the threat of eternal punishment?
And...considering one of the things you're supporting is genocide in Gaza, maybe you should rethink your moral compass.
I've met plenty of Christians who hate Atheists. Your comment shows an ignorance of a lot of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians in the US.
Your comments about Muslims also display your ignorance and your hypocrisy. Christians have historically made war, pillaged, converted at the point of a sword, and the Bible never condemns polygamy. Acting like any of this is unique to Muslims is dishonest and bigoted. And plenty of Muslims seem to believe in ideas like pacifism, nonviolence, charity etc.
Religion is a man-made construct that can be twisted for both good and evil. Acting like Christianity is morally superior to Islam (or vice-versa) while ignoring the history and theology of both is just intellectually lazy.
I’m not “acting like” anything. Why, do you suppose the world always seeking refuge in Judeo-Christian western nations and not so much, Muslim ones?
If Christians are so threatening to you, maybe you seek refuge is say, Pakistan or Malaysia?
"I’m not “acting like” anything."
Yes, you were. You were acting as if Christianity is morally superior to Islam.
"Why, do you suppose the world always seeking refuge in Judeo-Christian western nations and not so much, Muslim ones?"
First, the United States isn't a Judeo-Christian nation, it's a secular, pluralistic nation.
Second, Muslim-majority countries have taken in millions of Palestinian refugees.
Third, China is becoming a major power in the world that a lot of nations are turning to. They're not Judeo-Christian.
"If Christians are so threatening to you..."
Misrepresentation. I called out your bullshit argument on Christianity being morally superior to Islam. I don't really care what your religion is, as long as you're not trying to impose it on others.
"...maybe you seek refuge is say, Pakistan or Malaysia?"
So, in other words, if I criticize my country, I should just leave otherwise STFU?
Do you have anything beyond American Exceptionalist talking points?
I understand what you're saying John, but as an Atheist I have to disagree. My son read every holy book for each religion and formed his own opinion to also be an Atheist. His father is a Christian, although his disgust with the current crop of Christians keeps him moving away from them more each day.
I have been at the end of Christian hate of Atheists for decades. I spent a lot of time at the schools when that hate, and abuse was aimed at my son. He's grown up and a teacher now and respects everyone's right to their own religion, but the memories of what he endured, even by family members, will stay with him forever.
I'm so used to the hate from Christians thrown at me it amuses me now instead of making me angry. However, the vilest abuse over being an Atheist I've encountered was from Christians, not Jews or Muslims. Like my son, I respect everyone's religion and never make derogatory comments towards any religion to anyone. I don't think anyone is ignorant for being a part of a religion. I just don't participate.
I am also curious, if I may. Why atheist (hostile) and not merely agnostic (disinterested)?
I certainly appreciate your kind tone as well as your perspective.
I see two likely disconnects.
1. Any Christian behaving with hostility is a really poor example and that hostility may coincide with their religion but that doesn’t mean it correlates.
2. I was talking to a black friend about a mutual acquaintance, neither of us liked, especially. He asserted the guy was clearly a racist because he was always lousy to my friend. I explained that I never saw racism. I just figured he was just a jerk.
Maybe the hostility your son faced had more to do with personality and it was easy to categorize typical childish bad acts as resulting from hostility to atheists and not just kids being lousy.
In elementary school they jumped him and tried to baptize him by burying him in pea stone on the playground at recess. They weren't playing. In high school a teacher told him he was going to burn in hell because he didn't accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior. This is just two of many examples. His aunt and uncle told him he wasn't pure and his adult cousin told him he was going to hell on his Facebook page. He was 17 at the time.
I used to classify myself as agnostic because I always believed in the “I don't know and you don't either” thought process. My Atheist friends (I have friends in many religions and no religion) told me I was in denial about being an Atheist. Ha! I don't get intimidated so I just laughed. But, after years of watching so much hate from fundagelicals about whole groups of people, I decided I could never be part of organized religion.
By the way, I do appreciate the cordial conversation about this.
As do I.
I’m sorry for your son’s maltreatment.
There are strong denominational distinctions, which I experienced first hand, Christian Science, later Baptist and now Presbyterian, and a few variations in between.
I’m now a Calvinist, meaning if you’re not chosen, I can’t help you. That’s between you and God.
Evangelicals believe they can persuade or even argue you into Heaven.
Sadly, the “polite” Evangelicals and other Christians who hold this belief yet, are not bothered to approach you are seen as “the good ones” for keeping it to themselves.
The true Evangelicals are just putting “love your neighbor” into action.
While it can be annoying, and burying your son under playground gravel shows really bad parenting, that Evangelical is just showing love. They don’t hand out merit badges for that. It’s just love. Detractors who point and call it “hate” couldn’t be farther from the truth.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s apathy.
That Christian neighbor who leaves you alone is “lukewarm” and lacks either love or courage or both.