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Carly Fisher's avatar

OK so what you’re saying in a nutshell is that you want to play Russian Roulette against Trump again with a divisive underdog that has accomplished relatively nothing as a politician for their own incumbents simply as a national political gesture. Got it.

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Mona Kanin's avatar

I think settling for Biden without a push from the more progressive left is destructive. Many of those who supported him before are likely to sit this one out.

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Carly Fisher's avatar

I’m fine with a challenger. My argument is she’s not actually a progressive challenger. And unfortunately there’s a real generational gap that could have provided us the kind of diversity we need and deserve. I’m not settling for Tlaib because she checks certain surface level boxes when she is both ineffective as a progressive legislator and shitty to her constituents--both sort of important pieces missing from this straw man argument designed to be a topical shit stirrer for the algorithm than a useful strategy.

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None of Your Damn Business's avatar

Would you like to say "divisive underdog" again into the mic? Tlaib did better than Harris in the election within her own district. 😭

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Alice's avatar

She's accomplished a whole lot actually. You know nothing about her, you have no right to say she's done nothing. She's beloved by the people in Michigan whom she represents because she's done many things for them. One such example was when she organized the "We Have a Right to Breathe" campaign against pollution in the city, forcing a billionaire to fulfill obligations to public health. Another example, when black dust was showing up and claimed to be safe by Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality, she had the substance tested herself and found it to be a carcinogen, and had it removed. These efforts were massive public health threats that she curbed, because she took action to make sure the people who elected her were treated with justice.

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Dec 16, 2023
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Carly Fisher's avatar

If that’s the case, she’s not effective there either. Aside from Palestine, I don’t even know what she stands for in the US. Wouldn’t a gesture on her end have been to acknowledge when one of own constituents was murdered on their front porch rather than staying silent because she was Jewish? Even though it wasn’t a hate crime, it’s indicative of other issues in Michigan--the state she represents--and an affected voter she doesn’t even pretend to care about.

She isn’t an effective US politician period because she doesn’t have the know-how to even make these kinds of gestures, even if they come from a disingenuous place, so why even consider her for a diplomatic role? This is entirely the problem with the fact Gen X apathy left an enormous generational gap in our politicians where people are conflating youth or radical ideology with “progress.” I wouldn’t put Bernie or Tlaib in a room with Putin, nor Jill Stein, because this is part of the role of being president. And they barely have any track record in local or regional politics, let alone complex geopolitics--yet liberals continue to vote for them while Republicans continue to win.

The gesture of suggesting Tlaib mostly continues only succeed at allowing distraction while abortion and LGBTQ rights are stripped and seep into every facet of what should be inclusive, universal healthcare while pushing an inaccurate narrative that our collective liberation is tied up in billions to Israel. Hamilton, while a very good and smart writer, that I find extremely frustrating to use his platform for this entirely obtuse hot take that clearly a lot of people aren’t thinking critically about to begin with.

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Sem Sath's avatar

“I don’t even know what she stands for”

Then why are you commenting? Go google her!

“I’d argue she’s not a progressive”

But you just said you don’t know anything about her!

Also, heads up, bud, we know what Biden stands for, and we don’t like it. This isn’t a pet issue, we’re not splitting hairs, we don’t have unrealistic expectations; what we want is the bare minimum for humanity. That Biden refuses to deliver is the perfect reason to threaten a progressive challenge. And since you won’t google her, I can save you time: she’s one of the most progressive members of Congress.

Stop insulting people with arguments like these, they won’t work on anyone.

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Carly Fisher's avatar

I look forward to hearing speaking on every single issue beyond Israel and Palestine as part of her well-rounded platform that I welcome her to bring to this theoretical situation that I also hope does not blow back like last time, given that’s most people’s introduction to her: one very specific and highly divisive foreign policy issue that she does not appear to be very diplomatic in smoothing over community relations on her own turf here.

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Sem Sath's avatar

Israel is currently committing a genocide of her people. Your disdain for her is clear (despite not knowing jack shit about her) and your perception of her, and what’s expected of her, is deranged. Again, you shouldn’t be commenting on this when you clearly know less than nothing about the person involved.

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Carly Fisher's avatar

She can do whatever she wants, I’m just noting that this didn’t work so well last time for a number of reasons. Jill Stein and Bernie had some pretty good ideas--everyone should be able to get behind taxing billionaires and universal healthcare which is why I voted for Bernie the first time around--but actually getting them carried out requires support that she does not have a lot of and neither did they.

It really does suck that Biden is not in a good position right now and yeah, I did think it was kind of turn off how long it took her to acknowledge Sam Woll’s death or the Jewish community at all during a really heightened moment where innocent people were dying on both sides and we should have been working together. I don’t think that earned her any points among people who are probably less forgiving about that than I am and requires some work on her end if she’s trying to win voters--the key to getting anything done.

I think many people, myself included and clearly you are, feeling very helpless about a lot of things right now. I also think it’s about as fair to expect more from her as I do from Biden or any candidate, and she should be able to handle that with the tough skin required to do that job. And I don’t think airing that challenge isn’t unwarranted just because I think differently about it than you do. That doesn’t make me “deranged” but for the sake of argument, if you think that’s deranged you’re going to feel pretty disappointed when you step outside the bubble you have created for yourself.

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Sem Sath's avatar

I get it, you’re mad at her over one thing and are biased toward Israel, that’s fine, I’m saying, she’s a good progressive and is literally the exact type of candidate needed to offer a distinctly leftist alternative to Biden. You’re not excited by her; that’s fine, she’s not for you.

Also Jill Stein Is plainly terrible. She’s never been a good choice, even as a protest vote, and besides, the left has little to like about her. No need to bring her up anymore.

This isn’t about being “anti-war” it’s specifically about ending the carpet combing of Gaza. No one is more sympathetic to that issue than Rashida Tlaib.

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Sem Sath's avatar

“People were dying on both sides”. Israel is still committing an ethnic cleansing campaign as we speak, and you attack her for not being “fair”? What the…?

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Carly Fisher's avatar

Look, if she’s the great unifier of the left, that’s great. I’m open to being proven wrong. But this mostly just reminds me of 2016 all over again, including the condescending way that you’re talking to me right now, and I don’t think we’re better because of it--which is kind of the point

that I’m commenting on about this post.

A lot of people hated Hillary and she was still more popular than Rashida with a tremendous amount of geopolitical experience in a race that way closer. When she lost, that also meant she lost control over the Supreme Court--a lifetime appointment handed to conservative majority. It is actually insane that Trump is even able to run with the long list of indictments he has that are flat out treasonous. And he’s popular for it! That’s not just about Israel and Palestine--it’s also about misogyny. Israel and Palestine is about extremists, period, and that’s what our country is also dealing with on so many issues. They’re literally having a vigil in Haifa right now about unifying Israelis and Palestinians.

Forgive me if I’m a little concerned about long-term implications of what’s happening here beyond the immediate conflict happening there and how using her as a symbol is precisely the same vision that got us here in the first place with Bernie--something even people on this thread don’t seem to believe in. It doesn’t mean I’m not empathetic about what’s happening there or that I disagree with her on everything, but yeah I don’t know, I don’t want Trump again for four years. I hope the violence stops, the hostages released, Israel and Palestine find peace and are able to come to some kind of agreement they can both stick to. I would also like to feel good about a prospective candidate making an impact in a way I actually believe in it.

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Sem Sath's avatar

Rashida Tlaib is from Palestine. It is literally her birthplace. She has family there. Palestinian liberation is objectively more important to her (and to a lot of us) than ensuring a Joe Biden victory in 2024——and that seems to be precisely what you don’t like or trust about her.

This is not about “extremists on both sides” (and if you honestly think we’re doing a good job dealing with extremism here in America, do please snap out of it)

Israel is committing a genocide. This is not hyperbole, it is not my opinion, it is an established fact. Genocide is a war crime, and Israel is committing it. The mission of the IDF, at the behest of Benjamin Netanyahu, is to raze the infrastructure and clear the population in Gaza in order to prime it for future Israeli settlements. They’ve already made it uninhabitable for the next few years.

Most people remaining in Gaza are now homeless and starving and spend their days seeking safety that doesn’t exist, fleeing bombs that can’t be escaped. Deadly diseases are ripping through their population as we speak. They have no medical infrastructure, no clean water, no food. Israel has been telling the people to evacuate to specific “safe zones” and then bombs the “safe zones”. They are targeting civilians and blaming Hamas for allegedly being close by, if they offer an excuse at all. These are not wild conspiracy theories, all of this has been reported by legacy media and confirmed by Israel itself.

There is no other side to this. And yet, Joe Biden would prefer we all stop talking about it, and people like YOU are all over the place telling us it’s more complicated than we can comprehend, that we have the wrong idea, that we’re too emotional about this one thing, or that we just aren’t aware of Biden’s progressive wins, or that we don’t know how bad Trump can be), or that harping on a ceasefire is not worth the risk of a Biden loss. So, please, understand something: yes it is.

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David D's avatar

Respect to you my friend, for the burden of bearing witness to the inhumanity being inflicted on the people of Gaza and Palestine. Lest we forget.

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Karin's avatar

wow. you just outed yourself as being totally ignorant. First of all, Tlaib has very strong constituent services in her district. That's why she got 71% of the vote in her last election. Secondly, she had a lot to say about the murder of Samantha Wolf, who she knew personally. Here she is speaking on the floor of the House about it. https://www.facebook.com/reel/891497332715568

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Dec 16, 2023
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Carly Fisher's avatar

I think you missed my first sentence which is: that clearly was not effective in 2016 against Trump.

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