Southern Methodist, Native Texan here. This is the Southern Baptist way. The article captures their essence perfectly. What is described here has been their theology and their vibe forever. They just have more money and power now. Southern Baptists can be the best people in the world one on one. But, let them "fellowship" too much without any theological challenge and they will go too far. As can any group.
This is why the First Amendment is structured the way it is. It is a nuanced idea which Americans struggle to wrap their heads around. Baptists are free to construct their religious world and live in it. They are even free to try and recruit others to join them. What they cannot do is use the power of government to impose their religion on others. The government cannot establish Southern Baptist as the state religion.
Knowing Southern Baptists the way I do, we should accept that they will never get it, because they don't want to get it. The wall of separation between church and state must be understood by not just our representatives in DC and Austin, but by every citizen. Because what the Baptists have constructed is very enticing marketing. It is so very easy for people seeking community to be led astray.
The major thesis I see in James Talarico's bid for US Senator from Texas is him using his background as the son of a Southern Baptist preacher and a Presbyterian seminarian to re-orient us back to the proper stance between religion and government pursuant to the First Amendment.
FYI - there are many Southern Baptist congregations who are humble Christians rather than Mega [MAGA?] church groupies.
Ironically, it was the Baptist congregation to whom Thomas Jefferson addressed his reassuring wall-of-separation letter. Many of today’s Baptists have forgotten their own history.
The need for connection, for fellowship, is foundational for humans. But what isn't apparent on a Sunday like this is what happens when, say, your teen daughter tells you she's pregnant. The judgment and ostracism that follow in such a community based on rules years people apart. As was pointed out in another thread, Jesus didn't check bona fides at the door but ate with tax collectors (thieves), prostitutes, poor fishermen and others who wouldn't dare cross the threshold of such churches.
I'm impressed you made it through the entire sermon. I got invited to a megachurch once and left before the thing even started. The aggressive friendliness and acceptance, the deliberate posturing of virtue and righteousness... It's all so just wrong
Your writing is sublime, Ham No. Got me laughing my ass off whilst in full pucker-cringe mode. People desperate for companionship and community exploited by Satan himself, in glorious regalia. I don't speak Bible, but I know a scammed when I see one. Whatever god may be, that power is in full eyeroll, face palm, WTAF mode at this point in history. Looking forward to Part Deux.
well said - the unique confluence of Christianity, capitalism and hyper-patriotism is a unique U.S. product, heavily and globally exported. It would be an interesting study to find out how many of these friendly congregants also conceal carry, living in fear of marauding Mexicans and African Americans, not to mention public schools. We are in this unique situation, amongst this country's divisions, between a culture increasingly accepting of human diversity, while those in the religious rights stoke fears that "they" are coming to get you; I wonder how many in these congregations even know or befriend one of the "they" that triggers all these fears and are preyed upon from the pulpit.
Prestonwood Baptist Church you say? I recall local kids making fun of it as “PrestonWorld” and “Six Flags Over Jesus”. Had no idea the megachurch had gotten so much pull that their pastor had joined Trump’s ‘faith’ squad, that’s depressing.
Let's count, one, two, three, how long before Mr. Graham shows up at DFW Airport in dark shades and an improbable wig on his way to Mexico with a couple rent boys?
I spent my first 18 years in a Southern Baptist church. In college, I just stopped going.
It wasn’t an ideological/theological decision at the time. My ordinary downtown church wasn’t really a fundamentalist cult, I never encountered anything I’d describe as spiritual abuse, and none of my pastors were self-promoters like this Jack Graham guy.
What began to turn me off was the insipidity I saw in so much of it. And this piece captures that well. For instance, how ludicrous is it to claim that being a conservative Christian in the United States of America—much less the suburbs of Dallas!—might subject one to anything like “persecution” in the sense Jesus was discussing?
god, I find this kind of thing obscene. the flagrant, commercialized excess and then virulent repression. how much real, important work is there to do in the world while these people devote their plentiful resources to stopping “the LGBTQ agenda” and making podcasts?
The last one of these I read was your "Day Out At The Rodeo". So, thanks for bringing a little bit of Texan flavour to my mundane, sexless, Jesusless Monday.
The sceptical argue that, if God is so powerful, how come he cannot stop wars? That's the usual plaint. If we ourselves can march in with an army and bazookas and rifles and napalm and stop people fighting each other, why can't God?
It's often hard to know where to start. First, I'm not sure mankind has ever, not ever, marched in anywhere brandishing its almighty military power and stopped other people from fighting. They usually take a side and back the winner, or get rid of both of them and take the land for themselves. The subliminal argument seems to be that, if we had a God, He would tear the fighting factions apart and give them a jolly good talking to. I suppose he does do that indirectly, by appealing to both sides' better sense of sportsmanship. It's what "love thy neighbour" boils down to.
In fact "love thy neighbour" isn't just a nice to have at Sunday services. It's a mantra for life. Sounds squishy and pansy: "loving". Not that kind, I mean the kind that remains well north of the gonads. Loving means putting others at least on a par with yourself. Like in poker: 4 cards in the hand, three on the table. But for everyone, the same. To switch a card, you need to give the dealer what your switching, you get back what you give him. People understand poker, but they have difficulties with love.
Because they think it means dropping your guard, exposing yourself, being defenceless. But putting up a guard and arrogating things to yourself that are not yours, that creates such tensions that loving actually ends up being the smarter of the two stances: jet engine blades never come hurtling off when the engine's at a standstill. The trick with jet engines is to keep them turning, but inspecting them constantly, and stopping people throwing spanners into them. Between the amount of regulation and inspection needed for a jet engine, having them not turn at all can prove the easier solution in the end.
If we loved one another as we want to be loved by others, every war, conflict, fight, disagreement, would stop. Now, instantly. Global poverty would be ended overnight. Corporate greed would be a thing of the past. There would be no need for unions. Duress would be absent everywhere. Even the non-belligerent still protect themselves, because of the existence of belligerence. We live in constant fear of the people with whom we live. We say we love them, but it's always with qualifications and reservations. Because we, as a race, are incapable of trust, and so arguing and fighting erupts as a natural consequence. It is fostered by the in-fighting that we ourselves promote through having a government: a flag-bearing, banner-waving leader who vies to make your lot better than the other lot's lot. That's not to advocate the abolition of government, but it is to advocate a system of government that exacerbates these tensions to a lesser extent. Nevertheless, the idea that embracing love would do away with the need for government is both impractical, and true. It will also never happen, because government is a wealth-producing industrial sector and, apart from a few reputations, it basically costs nothing. Government is the original capitalism.
You can find God. He's there. But he's like a road sign. He's not the destination, he's there to tell us the destination, and how you get there is your affair. This "fellowship" nonsense is not what the church is about. Nothing about the church where you were is what the church is about. What belonging to that church means - its fellowship - is building a wall to others who are not its members. Anyone who can see logic in that position has usurped the very idea of Jesus.
It is possible to live a life of sainthood and not be a saint. To know God's goodness and his love, without even knowing him. God lives in each of us (which is why he seems to us to be inconsistent), and is with us in all we do. But he has no military power. He has no guns. He has a degree of persuasive effect that is different in all of us. And many of us lock him out of certain discussions.
You cannot find God through that church, probably not through any church that isn't utterly self-effacing. Nor can you be led by the nose to him, with a presentation, and a "Voilà! I present to you the Lord, Our God!" But you can find yourself. That is possible, and it's much more close at hand. However, for all its proximity, it is a long, hard struggle, finding out who you are, because we institutionally lie to each other in our societies about what that society is or what a tradition is or what things really mean and about our intentions (it's why we need to lead evidence in court cases), but the most gullible victim of our mendacity is us ourselves. Finding yourself is all about not lying to yourself about yourself. When you've found yourself and learned to be honest about yourself to yourself and with yourself, you will have found God, whether that be what you call him or something else. It will entail putting others no higher and no lower than you are. And every time you put yourself higher than others, well, that's the definition of evil.
Southern Methodist, Native Texan here. This is the Southern Baptist way. The article captures their essence perfectly. What is described here has been their theology and their vibe forever. They just have more money and power now. Southern Baptists can be the best people in the world one on one. But, let them "fellowship" too much without any theological challenge and they will go too far. As can any group.
This is why the First Amendment is structured the way it is. It is a nuanced idea which Americans struggle to wrap their heads around. Baptists are free to construct their religious world and live in it. They are even free to try and recruit others to join them. What they cannot do is use the power of government to impose their religion on others. The government cannot establish Southern Baptist as the state religion.
Knowing Southern Baptists the way I do, we should accept that they will never get it, because they don't want to get it. The wall of separation between church and state must be understood by not just our representatives in DC and Austin, but by every citizen. Because what the Baptists have constructed is very enticing marketing. It is so very easy for people seeking community to be led astray.
The major thesis I see in James Talarico's bid for US Senator from Texas is him using his background as the son of a Southern Baptist preacher and a Presbyterian seminarian to re-orient us back to the proper stance between religion and government pursuant to the First Amendment.
FYI - there are many Southern Baptist congregations who are humble Christians rather than Mega [MAGA?] church groupies.
The Southern Baptist sect tends to attract folks who aren't capable of nuance, and that's their echo chamber.
Ironically, it was the Baptist congregation to whom Thomas Jefferson addressed his reassuring wall-of-separation letter. Many of today’s Baptists have forgotten their own history.
yesterday's Baptists are todays Presbyterians
The need for connection, for fellowship, is foundational for humans. But what isn't apparent on a Sunday like this is what happens when, say, your teen daughter tells you she's pregnant. The judgment and ostracism that follow in such a community based on rules years people apart. As was pointed out in another thread, Jesus didn't check bona fides at the door but ate with tax collectors (thieves), prostitutes, poor fishermen and others who wouldn't dare cross the threshold of such churches.
I wish I could like this comment more than once!
Thanks. The older I get, the more I understand Jesus' rant about whitewashed tombs and have to check my 'righteous' ego at the door.
I'm impressed you made it through the entire sermon. I got invited to a megachurch once and left before the thing even started. The aggressive friendliness and acceptance, the deliberate posturing of virtue and righteousness... It's all so just wrong
Stepford fare
Plastic tree. Plastic religion. Plastic America.
No way to recycle this crap.
“ Prestonwood has a media production company called PowerPoint”
Does Microsoft know about this?
That was my thought!
And wait til they find porn at that company. Microsoft will be pissed when they have to explain it’s not them.
Your writing is sublime, Ham No. Got me laughing my ass off whilst in full pucker-cringe mode. People desperate for companionship and community exploited by Satan himself, in glorious regalia. I don't speak Bible, but I know a scammed when I see one. Whatever god may be, that power is in full eyeroll, face palm, WTAF mode at this point in history. Looking forward to Part Deux.
well said - the unique confluence of Christianity, capitalism and hyper-patriotism is a unique U.S. product, heavily and globally exported. It would be an interesting study to find out how many of these friendly congregants also conceal carry, living in fear of marauding Mexicans and African Americans, not to mention public schools. We are in this unique situation, amongst this country's divisions, between a culture increasingly accepting of human diversity, while those in the religious rights stoke fears that "they" are coming to get you; I wonder how many in these congregations even know or befriend one of the "they" that triggers all these fears and are preyed upon from the pulpit.
Great writing, HamNo.
Sounds like hell.
That was my reaction as well!
🤭
Prestonwood Baptist Church you say? I recall local kids making fun of it as “PrestonWorld” and “Six Flags Over Jesus”. Had no idea the megachurch had gotten so much pull that their pastor had joined Trump’s ‘faith’ squad, that’s depressing.
these mega churches are quite the grift
Let's count, one, two, three, how long before Mr. Graham shows up at DFW Airport in dark shades and an improbable wig on his way to Mexico with a couple rent boys?
The same Jim Schutze?
I'll bite: some time in the next 30 days
You have learned well -- perhaps too well -- from H.L. Mencken and Joan Didion.
I spent my first 18 years in a Southern Baptist church. In college, I just stopped going.
It wasn’t an ideological/theological decision at the time. My ordinary downtown church wasn’t really a fundamentalist cult, I never encountered anything I’d describe as spiritual abuse, and none of my pastors were self-promoters like this Jack Graham guy.
What began to turn me off was the insipidity I saw in so much of it. And this piece captures that well. For instance, how ludicrous is it to claim that being a conservative Christian in the United States of America—much less the suburbs of Dallas!—might subject one to anything like “persecution” in the sense Jesus was discussing?
god, I find this kind of thing obscene. the flagrant, commercialized excess and then virulent repression. how much real, important work is there to do in the world while these people devote their plentiful resources to stopping “the LGBTQ agenda” and making podcasts?
mall Jesus… it seems Ike such a fake kind of life
The last one of these I read was your "Day Out At The Rodeo". So, thanks for bringing a little bit of Texan flavour to my mundane, sexless, Jesusless Monday.
The sceptical argue that, if God is so powerful, how come he cannot stop wars? That's the usual plaint. If we ourselves can march in with an army and bazookas and rifles and napalm and stop people fighting each other, why can't God?
It's often hard to know where to start. First, I'm not sure mankind has ever, not ever, marched in anywhere brandishing its almighty military power and stopped other people from fighting. They usually take a side and back the winner, or get rid of both of them and take the land for themselves. The subliminal argument seems to be that, if we had a God, He would tear the fighting factions apart and give them a jolly good talking to. I suppose he does do that indirectly, by appealing to both sides' better sense of sportsmanship. It's what "love thy neighbour" boils down to.
In fact "love thy neighbour" isn't just a nice to have at Sunday services. It's a mantra for life. Sounds squishy and pansy: "loving". Not that kind, I mean the kind that remains well north of the gonads. Loving means putting others at least on a par with yourself. Like in poker: 4 cards in the hand, three on the table. But for everyone, the same. To switch a card, you need to give the dealer what your switching, you get back what you give him. People understand poker, but they have difficulties with love.
Because they think it means dropping your guard, exposing yourself, being defenceless. But putting up a guard and arrogating things to yourself that are not yours, that creates such tensions that loving actually ends up being the smarter of the two stances: jet engine blades never come hurtling off when the engine's at a standstill. The trick with jet engines is to keep them turning, but inspecting them constantly, and stopping people throwing spanners into them. Between the amount of regulation and inspection needed for a jet engine, having them not turn at all can prove the easier solution in the end.
If we loved one another as we want to be loved by others, every war, conflict, fight, disagreement, would stop. Now, instantly. Global poverty would be ended overnight. Corporate greed would be a thing of the past. There would be no need for unions. Duress would be absent everywhere. Even the non-belligerent still protect themselves, because of the existence of belligerence. We live in constant fear of the people with whom we live. We say we love them, but it's always with qualifications and reservations. Because we, as a race, are incapable of trust, and so arguing and fighting erupts as a natural consequence. It is fostered by the in-fighting that we ourselves promote through having a government: a flag-bearing, banner-waving leader who vies to make your lot better than the other lot's lot. That's not to advocate the abolition of government, but it is to advocate a system of government that exacerbates these tensions to a lesser extent. Nevertheless, the idea that embracing love would do away with the need for government is both impractical, and true. It will also never happen, because government is a wealth-producing industrial sector and, apart from a few reputations, it basically costs nothing. Government is the original capitalism.
You can find God. He's there. But he's like a road sign. He's not the destination, he's there to tell us the destination, and how you get there is your affair. This "fellowship" nonsense is not what the church is about. Nothing about the church where you were is what the church is about. What belonging to that church means - its fellowship - is building a wall to others who are not its members. Anyone who can see logic in that position has usurped the very idea of Jesus.
It is possible to live a life of sainthood and not be a saint. To know God's goodness and his love, without even knowing him. God lives in each of us (which is why he seems to us to be inconsistent), and is with us in all we do. But he has no military power. He has no guns. He has a degree of persuasive effect that is different in all of us. And many of us lock him out of certain discussions.
You cannot find God through that church, probably not through any church that isn't utterly self-effacing. Nor can you be led by the nose to him, with a presentation, and a "Voilà! I present to you the Lord, Our God!" But you can find yourself. That is possible, and it's much more close at hand. However, for all its proximity, it is a long, hard struggle, finding out who you are, because we institutionally lie to each other in our societies about what that society is or what a tradition is or what things really mean and about our intentions (it's why we need to lead evidence in court cases), but the most gullible victim of our mendacity is us ourselves. Finding yourself is all about not lying to yourself about yourself. When you've found yourself and learned to be honest about yourself to yourself and with yourself, you will have found God, whether that be what you call him or something else. It will entail putting others no higher and no lower than you are. And every time you put yourself higher than others, well, that's the definition of evil.
Enjoy your "grits".