"We Have a Mayor Who Is Willing to Cozy Up to a Fascist"
A conversation with socialist NYC mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani
New York City mayor Eric Adams has had a bad tenure even by the low standards of New York City mayors. He has enraged the city’s progressives with his policies, and his political future looks shaky now that he and his allies are the subjects of overlapping federal corruption charges. Adams’ weakness has already prompted five Democratic challengers to declare their candidacy for mayor, and that number may well increase in coming months.
One of those candidates is socialist Zohran Mamdani, who currently represents parts of Queens in the New York assembly. Mamdani, a 33-year-old with a history of leftist activism for labor and antiwar causes, has won the official endorsement of the New York City Democratic Socialists of America, making his candidacy an ambitious step forward for DSA’s burgeoning involvement in New York City politics.
I spoke to Mamdani yesterday about Eric Adams, Donald Trump, and the painstaking task of hauling socialism into the political mainstream. Our interview, slightly edited for length, is below.
How Things Work: There are several progressive candidates who have already declared for the mayor’s race. What distinguishes you from them, and why did you decide to get in?
Zohran Mamdani: First of all, I would say that this is the only campaign that defines itself as a progressive campaign thus far in the mayoral primary. In the words of all the campaigns. In addition to that, I am a socialist legislator, and that is a set of politics that will animate both this platform, and what this campaign will look like over the course of the next many months.
Cost of living has been at the heart of your platform. Talk about your plan to bring down cost of living for New Yorkers.
Mamdani: The political class has, by and large, diagnosed the most pressing crisis for New York City and New Yorkers being the corruption scandals that are engulfing City Hall, or questions of competence. And while those are important issues, I’ve found while talking to New Yorkers across the five boroughs that the most important issue that dominates their thinking on a day to day basis is whether or not they can afford to live in this city. We have to understand that as both borne out by statistics that we’ve seen—where more than half of New Yorkers hand over a majority of their paycheck each month to a landlord or a bank, with another quarter not far behind; with evictions surging; with half a million children not having enough food to eat—and also in the anxiety and the insecurity it generates in those New Yorkers who aren’t even captured by those statistics. We know that for far too many, if you are faced with that economic reality on a day to day basis, it severely limits the ability of working people to improve their lives, let alone pursue the creativity and connection that are central to actual human flourishing.
Housing is obviously the biggest expense for most people. What’s the plan on housing?
Mamdani: Of the 8.3 million or so New Yorkers who call this city home, close to two and a half million live in rent stabilized units. These are units that have historically been the bedrock of economic stability for working class New Yorkers. And yet under Eric Adams, these are units that have had rent hikes at levels that we’ve only seen when a Republican was running City Hall. Nine percent and counting thus far under Adams. Adams sets these through the Rent Guidelines Board, a board where he has the exclusive authority to appoint members. The first thing that I would do as mayor is to freeze the rent for every single one of those tenants for every single year that I was mayor.
That, however, is just the beginning of a housing platform. What we are going to roll out is a platform that will bring down the cost of housing for New Yorkers—whether that be by committing to develop 100% affordable housing on 100% publicly owned land; whether it be by banning brokers fees… there are many ways in which we can finally take action.
You got the endorsement of the New York City DSA, and you touched on the importance of you being a socialist. What’s your relationship with DSA?
Mamdani: I’m a part of DSA for far longer than I’ve actually been endorsed by DSA. I joined the organization in about 2017, and it was my introduction to local politics in a sustained and developed way… I think what’s so exciting about this race is it’s the opportunity to explain the significance of both DSA, but by and large socialism, which is to bring dignity back into working class people’s lives. And as we talk about the necessity of saving our democracy, making the argument that democracy can not only be saved at the ballot box— it has to be saved by extending it into your workplaces and every other aspect of your day to day life. Because without it, we are in fact paving the way for the death of that very democracy.
You’ve been an elected official in New York. What’s your sense of how DSA is viewed in the broader New York political world? Do elected officials see DSA as a small fringe organization, or do they take it seriously?
Mamdani: I think DSA has been viewed with increasing levels of seriousness, and I think there is a realization that this is not a moment, it is instead a movement. I think that that is the case because of the fact that the number of DSA-endorsed elected officials is only growing. We are in a time that has been incredibly difficult for the left, a time that is not the same as it was in 2020, for example. Yet in the face of these kinds of headwinds, in the face of hundreds of thousands of dollars being spent in state races by special interest groups—money which may not sound significant in the context of what is spent on federal races, but is incredibly impactful at a local level—DSA has still been able to protect every incumbent that it endorsed and brought into city office, as well as expand the number. What is so clear about this moment is that New Yorkers are eager to hear an economic vision that addresses their most pressing concerns. And that is not in conflict in any way with being a socialist or being a member of DSA. It is, in fact, the most pressing reason to be those things: to finally recognize these issues as being systemic, and therefore deserving of systemic responses.
A lot of people think the viable path to political power for DSA is rooted in building up from a base of winning local races. Do you see your campaign as part of that? Do you feel like you’re carrying the reputation of DSA on your shoulders?
Mamdani: Not in the sense of a burden. More in that, it is exciting to be an ambassador of these ideas to many New Yorkers. I found that to be the case at a much smaller level in my district, in Astoria and Long Island City, when I’ve gone to visit schools, and I’ve sat down with students who are working at the paper, and they’ve asked me, “What is socialism? Why are you a socialist?” For many of them, it’s the first time that they’ve ever even heard of this ideology, and the possibility of there being an alternative way that we run our society and our economy. And I think this race provides that same opportunity. But this race is much more than just that. It isn’t simply an experiment or the next step in growth of an organization. This is a race to win. Our goal is to finally deliver a New York City that the working class people who built it can afford to live in, and can afford to grow old in.
Let me ask you a labor question— there are a number of other candidates in this race who are considered very pro-union and pro-labor. What is your pitch to organized labor in New York City?
Mamdani: My pitch is that we are going to run an incredibly pro-labor campaign that will be borne out in policy proposals that we will bring forth, as well as a commitment that will be lived every day to stand with workers wherever it is they are fighting the boss. Later today I’m going to be going to a rally for workers who are preparing for the possibility of a strike at the New York Times… I would say that many of my greatest achievements are ones that have been won hand in hand with labor. When I was at the front lines being arrested, protesting, having press conferences, going on a 15 day hunger strike to win more than $450 million in debt relief for thousands of working class taxi drivers, it was with the leadership of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance, an incredible union.
What’s your assessment of Eric Adams’ term as mayor, both on a policy level, and in terms of the corruption charges?
Mamdani: My assessment is that it has been a total failure. This is a mayor who failed New Yorkers far before he became the first in modern history to face federal charges. This is a mayor who has at best been uninterested in delivering basic services for New Yorkers. We’ve seen that in his own management reports, where city service delivery that was north of 90% under the previous administration plummeted to less than 50%. Whether it comes to the processing of applications for SNAP or the timeliness of that, you’re looking at drops to less than 50%, or two-thirds. When you’re looking at NYCHA [the NYC Housing Authority] and public housing—we are in the midst of a housing crisis. One of the easiest things to do should be to put a New Yorker in a vacant unit. NYCHA sets a goal of filling a vacant unit within 30 days. It takes the Adams administration more than a year. How can you reconcile that with any kind of commitment to working class New Yorkers?
There’s always a danger of multiple candidates on the left splitting the vote and opening the door to somebody like, for example, Eric Adams. Have you put any thought into how to avoid something like that in the mayoral election?
Mamdani: New York is unique in that we have ranked choice voting. So concerns around spoilers are not as relevant, given that the voter who I would be speaking to also has four more options on their ballot. That still requires you, however, to run a race that is explicit in your opposition to Eric Adams, or any other disgraced New York executive, be it him or Andrew Cuomo, and that is something I’m committed to doing. Because I believe that by running I not only have an opportunity to win this race, but that I also increase the opportunity for anyone by virtue of bringing out voters who otherwise wouldn’t be motivated to participate in a mayoral election, and will understand that this is a referendum on Adams.
To what extent will the outcome of the presidential election next week affect the New York City mayor’s race, and how you’re thinking about what the role of the NYC mayor should be?
Mamdani: I do think the next president will have an incredible impact on New York state and New York City, as well as on this race. But this race is far less important than what it will do to New Yorkers. And I am terrified, frankly, of the prospect of—in President Trump’s own words—the largest deportation program in history being enacted on the first day of his presidency. That is something that should concern every New Yorker whether or not they have an undocumented person in their life, because it’s an assault on all of our values. And yet it’s not something that Eric Adams thought worthy of denouncing. I think that shows that we have a mayor who views his political future as being intertwined with the former president’s, and is willing to cozy up to a fascist even if it means betraying the city’s fundamental values.
If Trump is elected, it’s really going to fall to local and state officials in blue states in particular to be the wall against his policies. Is that something you’ve thought about?
Mamdani: Absolutely. The context of the post-2016 left has been to show that it’s not enough to simply oppose Trump. We have to oppose all that gave rise to Trump. We have to understand that for many Americans, the appeal of Donald Trump lies in the failures of the alternative. And we have to showcase that the despair over continued funding of a genocide, the despair over our neighbors being unable to afford even the bare minimum of a dignified life, that is a despair that we cannot allow to pave the way for a fascist presidency. It is also a despair that we must take action on—because if we do not, then it is used by those that we know have no interest in ending it, but instead in expanding it.
Maybe you can commit to kicking Trump out of New York City if you’re elected mayor. Just a thought. Last question, will the Yankees win the World Series?
Mamdani: Inshallah.
[Hours after this interview, the Yankees lost the World Series.]
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Previous How Things Work interviews: Tom Scocca; Shawn Fain; Sara Nelson; Gwen Mills; Jeff Schuhrke.
Is this election season stressing you out? I wrote a book, called “The Hammer,” about how the labor movement is our path out of the terrible trap America has fallen into. You would like. Order it wherever books are sold. If you are here in New York City, I’ll be speaking about it this Sunday, November 3, at 11 a.m. at the New York Society for Ethical Culture on 64th street in Manhattan. The event is free and open to the public. Don’t forget it’s daylight savings day.
Want to make a donation to the labor movement? Try EWOC, or the fund supporting the Pittsburgh newspaper workers who have been on strike for two damn years. Organize your workplace in 2024.
Thanks for the interview, Hamilton. Good to be building alliances between labour and progressive community leaders. I want to make a more general comment about left political leaders. My experience here in Canada, and I believe the same is true in the US, is that a small group of activists lead the progressive party (or the progressive wing of the Democratic Party), and then their outreach to the community is to ask for their vote and their money. Support us! is what they ask for. That, in my view, is completely the wrong approach to building a progressive movement. It frustrated me so much once, that, in reply to another request for money, I wrote back (never receiving a reply) that there'd be no more money unless someone, once, asked me for my views on some topic of political importance.
Like union organizing, there needs to be community organizing. Progressive parties should be building local committees in each local committee, and listening. Listening to what the people are actually concerned about, and involving them in the leadership of the local committee, and from their having their participation in the broader party. A successful left-wing political party needs grassroots growth of members who are participants in the decisions. There needs to be some fun in such participation - family events, and entertainment perhaps, but some joyful possibility for engagement and participation.
At present, the Democratic Party is indistinguishable from the Republicans in this sense: they are run from the top, there is virtually no actual local organization, and all they want from us is money and our vote. If the left is ultimately to dominate and lead the Democratic Party - whether through DSA involvement or some other progressive party, it must be founded on local community involvement - and not just meetings to hear what the people have to say - but actual organization. I didn't hear a lot of that from Mamdani, though I suspect he would not oppose these ideas.
Excellent interview!
Run Mamdani Run!!!!!