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AnonymousBosch's avatar

Not to piss on the parade but here's my experience trying just that in the San Diego County Democratic Party.

I join as a leftist hoping explicitly to do entryism and push them left following Trump's election.

Most of the local clubs are hollowed out old folks homes, because the clubs are given no real power (more on that later) and boomers are the last generation to grow up thinking the government gives a shit about them - and of course they still get everything they ask for, all future generations be damned.

Anyway 30 year old me shows up and within a year I'm president simply because they've been handing the executive committe positions off between the same few people and no one wants to do it. HEY! Great, right!

Ok so. The main value of these local clubs is they vote to endorse candidates in primaries. In southern california (out side the nazi districts of which there are plenty) this is the same as anointing them the victor. The clubs individual endorsements carry very little weight, but they do get a vote in the county party endorsement deliberations. Along with party insiders, including electeds and ex-electeds who get a lifetime vote even when out of office.

Are you starting to get the issue here? Democrats from the pre90s red state california when hating mexicans, blacks, renters and taxes was bipartisan commonsense voting FOREVER? Likewise the insider backslappers who were elected by the last group of backslappers getting a thumb to keep putting on the scale?

Well organize! we have the people they have the power. Sure except the clubs get ONE vote. clubs of a dozen people, couple dozen, some active enough to have a hundred members show up, give up an evening to listen to a bunch of candidates lie about their priorites and values, pick their favorite and they're cancelled out by whichever developers nephew got backdoored into some city attorney job two decades back.

You can start multiple clubs - someone did that, god bless him, and astroturfed a bunch of votes for a candidate and they more or less banned that. So simple organizing a new dem club is now difficult.

Ok whatever. Pessimissm of the intellect, optimism of the will. You put together an endorsement meeting, you bite your tongue and dont scream LIAR at the smug ex-florist who ran on red baiting and (((George Soros))) baiting her constiuency of elderly rich high value real estate squatting racists. You ask pointed questions during the debate, you convince you more cynical lefty friends to come out and join thebparty and waste and evening and bite their tongues and the "good" one (good in the dems varying from ok but probably lying about it to openly terrible but better than the other guy) is endorsed!

Ok great! now you get to go to the county endorsement meeting where after doing this about 5 times over the course of the summer, to get endorsements in all relevant races, your club is ready to be heard!

Well now you get to sit through it ALL AGAIN, every candidate doing their dumb stump speeches, but this time for the ones who count, the party insiders who didn't bother attending a single local clubs endorsement meeting. Why would they, they have this marathon session that happens by the way on a workday evening, RIGHT after work, which you must be signed in on time for, which means leaving your job (unlike the professional do nothing insiders and elderly cranks and prop 13/53 princelings you have to work to eat and make rent) early and fighting california rush hour traffic so all that work isnt thrown in the trash.

You also cant just cast your ballot and leave early. No. You need to *hear all of them out* even though by definition none of the clubs could cast an endorsement vote if they didnt already do this.

So where im getting at is if you dont have an exec committee member who is free on a weekday or has latitude to run out at 4pm and doesnt have a pet or a kid or any other obligation such that they can blow 4 hours in a shitty restaurant event backroom, THEN, and only then, can your voice and the voice of your couple dozen members be canceled out by one smug insider.

Again, they could simply allow thenclubs proportional votes to their membership . They could allow automatic submission and recording of club endorsements when and as they happen rather than requiring some dumb shit human presence voice vote caucus. They could require insiders to attend club meetings and register attendance to be allowed to cast their votes, just like we have to. but no.

And I havent even gotten into the time our clubs endorsement was thrown out for a congressional seat because *I*, personally, had moved to a new apartment across the street from the districts border, because Im a millenial, and rent, despite the club I represent being made up of and based in a neighborhood entirely within the boundaries. If we had sent a different committee member it would have been fine. I LIVED in the neighborhood when we made our endorsement!

And yea with a million members all brigading a million clubs maybe we could make something happen. But if you gave me enough people with enough long term commitment to do that? We could found a third party and roll up the Dems tomorrow.

So the Republicans would win a few elections they should otherwise have lost in the meantime. They do that all the time anyway under our system, see also Bush V Gore and the popular vote spread in 2016. The difference would be at the end of two decades of exhausting, backbreaking work you would have a real party with real values, rather than a riven dem party that assuming you didnt lose to the ratfuckers, youd always be looking over your shoulder because ratfuckers never, never rest. For reference, see the section in the back of your book I just read where Eisenhower talks about how no one serious has an issue with unions. took em another 30 years but they never, never rested.

What Im saying is they have this shit sewn up to the subatomic level. They see you coming. In fact they saw you coming decades before you even started coming because this is far from a novel argument.

How you keep the rats and snakes from slinking across the street tonwhere the power is once you win some? Good question. No idea. I will say that having worked with the DSA also, there is no minimum quanta of power that will not attract insane dysfunctional narcissists. Just the curse of politics I suppose.

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Sam's avatar

Okay so this is actually one of my favorite things to argue about/get stoned and ponder. I’ve generally come around to agreeing with your take and I think the increasing influence of pols like Tim Walz and Gretchen Whitmer who aren’t necessarily of the left but are more ideologically flexible and willing to work with labor/the left if they are an ascendant faction and can deliver them legislative wins is a great sign that this is doable! I also hope this Supreme Court reform proposal is a step in the direction of giving more public attention to democracy reform measures like proportional representation/getting rid of the electoral college because I still think this should be a priority. Even in an ideal world where unions become hegemonic in the Democratic Party I don’t think a two party system where the parties are a) people who want America to become the Fourth Reich and b) everyone else and the everyone else party has to win every election is a long term stable or desirable situation. I agree that there’s a way better shot at getting a third party off the ground at the state/local level and the place to me that immediately springs to mind as somewhere where it might actually be worth trying is New York. There’s already a third party infrastructure in place, there’s not a real risk of republicans gaining power plus the state Democratic Party is extremely dysfunctional and as we saw with the India Walton affair does not consider “vote blue no matter who to be a two way street.” I think the best way to counter the right’s narrative about blue cities and crime and homelessness is to show examples of progressive solutions to these problems actually working and the NY state dems are functionally incapable of doing that. I got fried for this take on twitter but I actually would have been down with Jamal Bowman running on the WFP ballot line in the general after he lost his primary. The last thought I have on this is I wonder if more parties would do anything to correct the “both sides-ism” problem in our political media? My initial instinct is I don’t think so because at the end of the day our media organs are serving the interests of their owners but I do think it would be interesting to see what would happen in a more multipolar environment

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