Money makes money with no effort. Labor makes money but is limited by time. I don’t know why we don’t tax wages at a very low amount and tax capital gains at a higher amount - particularly above certain levels. Put THAT tax plan in front of working folks. And, BTW, as a resident of Switzerland, I had to pay a tax on my worldwide wealth. Very rich nations do this.
The reason, feeble as it is, is because taxing capital gains is thought to reduce investment which is thought to drive economic growth and prosperity. There is some truth to this. But also, one essentially has two options with what to do with money - spend or save/invest - so the logic is not really that great. Increasing taxes on capital gains would cause more consumption less investment, but wealthy people can only consume so much.
For all the right wing talking points of what we encourage with tax policy, we seem to be disincentivizing labor aka actual work.
My $0.02 - these should be taxed the same, income is income.
Yes and just as we monitor labor rates, we could be monitoring investment rates or how easy is it to get a loan. I think the fed does this to set interest rates. It’s also a bit on who can make those investments to earn those gains - limited to those with wealth - so a higher tax on capital helps in terms to taxing wealth.
They don't pay less than you do as a teacher, tho that's just a myth, we have arguably the most progressive income tax system in the OECD, at least on the federal level.
I would love for journalists to start asking politicians some variation of the following question: “When are we going to address wealth addiction in this country?”
We recognize and address all other forms of addiction, yet no one ever brings up the form of it which has the largest negative impact on society as a whole.
I think some sort of mental illness is definitely part of it. Who would continue to exploit their workers, their society, ands their planet long after such was even necessary to gain more?
I think they have a superiority complex and they NEED people to be impoverished so that they can feel like lords over peasants.
Unfortunately, they’ve kept the population just comfortable enough that they’re too lazy to overthrow them. Like frogs slowly boiling in water.
Americans (of a certain age, at least) were conditioned to believe that *taxing the rich is bad because YOU could *someday* become rich too! And you’d never voluntarily give up YOUR money, would you?* “Greed is good”, right? I remember this thinking taking hold when I was a teenager in the 1980s because my mother was staunchly against it and talked about it all the time. The Republicans really pushed this and it worked on an entire generation of people. I think that’s part of why Gen X has been the most loyal to the GOP, regardless of the atrocities they commit or propose.
This really is a good way to think about it. I long ago realized the Warren Buffet is actually just a money junkie. People praise him but he hasn’t actually contributed any useful to society, you can connect Gates to personal computers for instance, but Buffet just amasses wealth and can’t stop himself. It’s actually kind of pathetic if you think about.
They can start with overturning Citizens United. I know that won’t completely solve the problem of money (curried favor) in politics but it’s a start. It runs through government and with so many officials on the take, it’s makes in a momentous task to de-fang the billionaire class. Gotta start somewhere (yes, and tax the shit out of them).
I agree with you in spirit, Hamilton. I think the better solution is to prevent human beings from amassing that kind of wealth in the first place. As I understand it, the US Supreme Court has, since shortly after the Civil War, interpreted the 13th and 14th Amendments to give any group of individuals has the rights of a single individual. Somehow, this has allowed such groups to operate without bearing commensurate responsibility for their wealth-building acts. Add to that a society that reveres the rich, and we have a country where people are actually encouraged to “accumulate capital” via nearly any means, with no thought to how many others they might be screwing — also giving rise to a political class that will do and say anything to enable the behavior in exchange for generous campaign contributions. If we want to put a stop the cyclical re-distribution of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the wealthy, we have to stop enabling bad behavior.
"I think the better solution is to prevent human beings from amassing that kind of wealth in the first place"
Perhaps an asymptotic tax increase starting at 10 million. That would shortly after kill the incentive for making more money, and perhaps open up space for new entrepreneurs.
You have clearly explained why unregulated Capitalism has never worked & never will! It's neither Socialism nor Communism either. Those accusations tossed around by people who want to brand systems they know nothing about. They also appear to be ignorant about the dangers of Fascism. American Democracy is the most successful country in the 🌎 world. I'll stick with that! VOTE
Oh most definitely they've become a threat to liberal democracy in the US and the world at large. They would rather spend their billions in defense of amassing more billions than redistribute to make the world a better place. It's absolute insanity to continue to allow such grotesque amounts of wealth to be hoarded by so few. The Overton Window will hopefully change soon and it will become more mainstream to look at hoarding in disgust and not something to strive for.
Even $1 billion is too generous. Once you own more than $50 million your money will become a nuisance to your offspring and civil society. Problem is, we need a Wealth Tax since income is so malleable and easy to hide in elaborate corporate structures. Given the Supreme Court composition and the recent ruling in the Moore case any Wealth Tax or even Kamala's watered-down "Billionaire Tax" on unrealized capital gains will be dead in the water without a 28th Amendment. Start circulating those petitions!
Nice article. I agree with what you say. The only problem is the government is very poor at managing money and they have their own crooks operating within. In Canada we see time and again how taxpayer's money is wasted. So you would have to find an honest method of redistribution abscissa believe this would be problematic.
I think the solution would be to create a large scale pre plan for public projects works. Say exactly what you plan to use the money for BEFORE you have the money...and show your work. That way it's not just waiting in some giant bank account for someone to figure out how to "spend" it. Have a promissory structure set up that people can easily follow and track. Start with areas of greatest need and move out from there. But ultimately the trick is to already have some thing planned to spend it on and make those plans very public
The problem is oversight. Who decides. In an ideal world you could have administrators you can trust. But this oversight doesn't exist and the problem is that it is very difficult to find honest people especially when there is a lot of money involved. Money corrupts like power.
Ironically to reset a system in order to redistribute funds you would have to get unions onside and they might not be willing to reset because they already have agreements and contracts with the current governmental entity.
Canadian taxpayers' money is never wasted because the Canadian government doesn't use taxpayers' money to pay for anything. Ever.
For the Canadian government to tax Canadian citizens and residents, those people must have Canadian dollars to be taxed in the first place.
But where do Canadian dollars come from? Who, or what, creates Canadian dollars?
The Canadian government, of course.
So, FIRST the Canadian government has to create and spend Canadian dollars into existence, and THEN the Canadian government can tax some of that money back.
There is no other logical or operational way for this to work, unless Canadian people create electronically their own Canadian dollars in their bank accounts or print their own Canadian dollars at home. But we know they can't.
Thus, the Canadian government FIRST spends into existence the Canadian dollars, and THEN taxes some of those dollars back.
The wasteful spending you mention points at two more important questions: For whose benefit and for what specific purpose does the Canadian government create Canadian dollars?
None of your five major political parties understands this basic fact about money and the state. (Liberals, Conservatives, New Democrats, Quebecois, and Green.)
All believe the nonsense that the Canadian government needs taxes to pay for stuff.
A billionare is someone eho stole $1,000 from one million people.
Jef Bezos built a yacht for him and his wife that cost $500 Million dollars. A boat.
During the pandemic if he had given $100,000 to every ( 1.2 million ) Amazon employee he still would be worth $50 Billion.
That's obscene.
I had an Amazon worker deliver a pizza to me, ( his 2nd job) because he couldn't make a living wage as a full time Amazon warehouse worker. And is now working to unionize that warehouse.
Before Reagan taxes were progressive topping at 70%
Democracy has been perverted by capitalism into plutocracy. We can break the grip of wealthy 1% on elected “leaders” to make our votes translate into laws.
To weaken the plutocrats, weaken their economy.
Buying is to capitalism as voting is to democracy.
3+% of a population can lower GDP by only buying essentials. Buy used. Pay in cash. Withdraw deposits from petro banks. Boycott businesses that won’t become sustainable. They can’t make you buy what you don’t need.
Some can nonviolently strike at home. Many can help a striker with cash, goods or services. Teachers interact every day with future climate victims. Every teacher that stays home takes parents off their jobs to babysit. GDP will quickly wither when stuff isn’t being made, shipped or bought.
Hold out for laws we need. Stop supplying weapons to Israel. Rapidly draw down fuels & restore biodiversity. Codify human & voting rights, basic income & healthcare. Tax wealth into extinction to keep Earth livable.
Slippery slope. $1B today becomes $100M tomorrow becomes "more than average" the next day. Pretty soon our mindset/culture is "take anything from anyone who has something I do not have" and it is the right thing to do. For every transaction there is a buyer and a seller. Perhaps those who are allowing themselves to be controlled by these evil rich people should look in the mirror. Money is powerless without someone who sells something to gain it.
In the 50s into the 60s, the top federal tax rate never went below 70%
Perhaps we need to add raise the capital gains tax on individuals who's net worth is high, after all the people who are in this category usually get most of their income from capital gains and dividends
Money makes money with no effort. Labor makes money but is limited by time. I don’t know why we don’t tax wages at a very low amount and tax capital gains at a higher amount - particularly above certain levels. Put THAT tax plan in front of working folks. And, BTW, as a resident of Switzerland, I had to pay a tax on my worldwide wealth. Very rich nations do this.
The reason, feeble as it is, is because taxing capital gains is thought to reduce investment which is thought to drive economic growth and prosperity. There is some truth to this. But also, one essentially has two options with what to do with money - spend or save/invest - so the logic is not really that great. Increasing taxes on capital gains would cause more consumption less investment, but wealthy people can only consume so much.
For all the right wing talking points of what we encourage with tax policy, we seem to be disincentivizing labor aka actual work.
My $0.02 - these should be taxed the same, income is income.
Yes and just as we monitor labor rates, we could be monitoring investment rates or how easy is it to get a loan. I think the fed does this to set interest rates. It’s also a bit on who can make those investments to earn those gains - limited to those with wealth - so a higher tax on capital helps in terms to taxing wealth.
They don't pay less than you do as a teacher, tho that's just a myth, we have arguably the most progressive income tax system in the OECD, at least on the federal level.
I'd tweek the headline a bit: "Confiscate OUR Money From The Thieving Billionaires".
They didn't "earn" it, and they definitely aren't "worth" it.
Billionaires? Our kids can't afford 'em.
I would love for journalists to start asking politicians some variation of the following question: “When are we going to address wealth addiction in this country?”
We recognize and address all other forms of addiction, yet no one ever brings up the form of it which has the largest negative impact on society as a whole.
I think some sort of mental illness is definitely part of it. Who would continue to exploit their workers, their society, ands their planet long after such was even necessary to gain more?
I think they have a superiority complex and they NEED people to be impoverished so that they can feel like lords over peasants.
Unfortunately, they’ve kept the population just comfortable enough that they’re too lazy to overthrow them. Like frogs slowly boiling in water.
Americans (of a certain age, at least) were conditioned to believe that *taxing the rich is bad because YOU could *someday* become rich too! And you’d never voluntarily give up YOUR money, would you?* “Greed is good”, right? I remember this thinking taking hold when I was a teenager in the 1980s because my mother was staunchly against it and talked about it all the time. The Republicans really pushed this and it worked on an entire generation of people. I think that’s part of why Gen X has been the most loyal to the GOP, regardless of the atrocities they commit or propose.
John Steinbeck said it: "every American is a temporarily distressed millionaire". Adjust for inflation, if you must.
This really is a good way to think about it. I long ago realized the Warren Buffet is actually just a money junkie. People praise him but he hasn’t actually contributed any useful to society, you can connect Gates to personal computers for instance, but Buffet just amasses wealth and can’t stop himself. It’s actually kind of pathetic if you think about.
They can start with overturning Citizens United. I know that won’t completely solve the problem of money (curried favor) in politics but it’s a start. It runs through government and with so many officials on the take, it’s makes in a momentous task to de-fang the billionaire class. Gotta start somewhere (yes, and tax the shit out of them).
I agree with you in spirit, Hamilton. I think the better solution is to prevent human beings from amassing that kind of wealth in the first place. As I understand it, the US Supreme Court has, since shortly after the Civil War, interpreted the 13th and 14th Amendments to give any group of individuals has the rights of a single individual. Somehow, this has allowed such groups to operate without bearing commensurate responsibility for their wealth-building acts. Add to that a society that reveres the rich, and we have a country where people are actually encouraged to “accumulate capital” via nearly any means, with no thought to how many others they might be screwing — also giving rise to a political class that will do and say anything to enable the behavior in exchange for generous campaign contributions. If we want to put a stop the cyclical re-distribution of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the wealthy, we have to stop enabling bad behavior.
"I think the better solution is to prevent human beings from amassing that kind of wealth in the first place"
Perhaps an asymptotic tax increase starting at 10 million. That would shortly after kill the incentive for making more money, and perhaps open up space for new entrepreneurs.
You have clearly explained why unregulated Capitalism has never worked & never will! It's neither Socialism nor Communism either. Those accusations tossed around by people who want to brand systems they know nothing about. They also appear to be ignorant about the dangers of Fascism. American Democracy is the most successful country in the 🌎 world. I'll stick with that! VOTE
No one EARNS a billion dollars. They gain it through massive exploitation of their workers, their consumers, and our planet.
Oh most definitely they've become a threat to liberal democracy in the US and the world at large. They would rather spend their billions in defense of amassing more billions than redistribute to make the world a better place. It's absolute insanity to continue to allow such grotesque amounts of wealth to be hoarded by so few. The Overton Window will hopefully change soon and it will become more mainstream to look at hoarding in disgust and not something to strive for.
Even $1 billion is too generous. Once you own more than $50 million your money will become a nuisance to your offspring and civil society. Problem is, we need a Wealth Tax since income is so malleable and easy to hide in elaborate corporate structures. Given the Supreme Court composition and the recent ruling in the Moore case any Wealth Tax or even Kamala's watered-down "Billionaire Tax" on unrealized capital gains will be dead in the water without a 28th Amendment. Start circulating those petitions!
Nice article. I agree with what you say. The only problem is the government is very poor at managing money and they have their own crooks operating within. In Canada we see time and again how taxpayer's money is wasted. So you would have to find an honest method of redistribution abscissa believe this would be problematic.
I think the solution would be to create a large scale pre plan for public projects works. Say exactly what you plan to use the money for BEFORE you have the money...and show your work. That way it's not just waiting in some giant bank account for someone to figure out how to "spend" it. Have a promissory structure set up that people can easily follow and track. Start with areas of greatest need and move out from there. But ultimately the trick is to already have some thing planned to spend it on and make those plans very public
The problem is oversight. Who decides. In an ideal world you could have administrators you can trust. But this oversight doesn't exist and the problem is that it is very difficult to find honest people especially when there is a lot of money involved. Money corrupts like power.
This plan would require a completely new structure. Government as we know it would have to be completely revised.
Ironically to reset a system in order to redistribute funds you would have to get unions onside and they might not be willing to reset because they already have agreements and contracts with the current governmental entity.
It would be interesting to get Hamilton's view on this because he is the expert on unions.
Excellent point
Canadian taxpayers' money is never wasted because the Canadian government doesn't use taxpayers' money to pay for anything. Ever.
For the Canadian government to tax Canadian citizens and residents, those people must have Canadian dollars to be taxed in the first place.
But where do Canadian dollars come from? Who, or what, creates Canadian dollars?
The Canadian government, of course.
So, FIRST the Canadian government has to create and spend Canadian dollars into existence, and THEN the Canadian government can tax some of that money back.
There is no other logical or operational way for this to work, unless Canadian people create electronically their own Canadian dollars in their bank accounts or print their own Canadian dollars at home. But we know they can't.
Thus, the Canadian government FIRST spends into existence the Canadian dollars, and THEN taxes some of those dollars back.
The wasteful spending you mention points at two more important questions: For whose benefit and for what specific purpose does the Canadian government create Canadian dollars?
None of your five major political parties understands this basic fact about money and the state. (Liberals, Conservatives, New Democrats, Quebecois, and Green.)
All believe the nonsense that the Canadian government needs taxes to pay for stuff.
A billionare is someone eho stole $1,000 from one million people.
Jef Bezos built a yacht for him and his wife that cost $500 Million dollars. A boat.
During the pandemic if he had given $100,000 to every ( 1.2 million ) Amazon employee he still would be worth $50 Billion.
That's obscene.
I had an Amazon worker deliver a pizza to me, ( his 2nd job) because he couldn't make a living wage as a full time Amazon warehouse worker. And is now working to unionize that warehouse.
Before Reagan taxes were progressive topping at 70%
Trickle down didn't
That guy has unimaginable wealth and he still drinks PBR? Further proof that money can't buy taste...
Yes please.
Kingdoms and empires topple from being too top heavy.
If you can’t control the Barons, the Barons run the kingdom.
Peter Turchin called it turning off the wealth pump and showed that it is an essential action when it comes to preventing collapse or civil war.
We’ve had enough of private luxury, how about some public luxury again.
Paying tax on UNREALIZED GAINS makes no sense. Who's coming up with these silly economic plans? How can you tax people on income they haven't made? https://torrancestephensphd.substack.com/p/you-just-watch-my-word
Democracy has been perverted by capitalism into plutocracy. We can break the grip of wealthy 1% on elected “leaders” to make our votes translate into laws.
To weaken the plutocrats, weaken their economy.
Buying is to capitalism as voting is to democracy.
3+% of a population can lower GDP by only buying essentials. Buy used. Pay in cash. Withdraw deposits from petro banks. Boycott businesses that won’t become sustainable. They can’t make you buy what you don’t need.
Some can nonviolently strike at home. Many can help a striker with cash, goods or services. Teachers interact every day with future climate victims. Every teacher that stays home takes parents off their jobs to babysit. GDP will quickly wither when stuff isn’t being made, shipped or bought.
Hold out for laws we need. Stop supplying weapons to Israel. Rapidly draw down fuels & restore biodiversity. Codify human & voting rights, basic income & healthcare. Tax wealth into extinction to keep Earth livable.
Do it!
Slippery slope. $1B today becomes $100M tomorrow becomes "more than average" the next day. Pretty soon our mindset/culture is "take anything from anyone who has something I do not have" and it is the right thing to do. For every transaction there is a buyer and a seller. Perhaps those who are allowing themselves to be controlled by these evil rich people should look in the mirror. Money is powerless without someone who sells something to gain it.
Nope
In the 50s into the 60s, the top federal tax rate never went below 70%
Perhaps we need to add raise the capital gains tax on individuals who's net worth is high, after all the people who are in this category usually get most of their income from capital gains and dividends
In short, a new tax code could solve this